Thing I Mentioned in the Video
Click Here to Get WSO Cash Blueprint!
Stuff I Forgot to Mention in the Video
- If you’re a Video-Marketing Blueprints customer, check out the member’s are for the latest updates, added last week.
- Disclaimer: although I’m not a fan of the Warrior Forum, I’ll probably still run the occasional WSO there. That may make me a hypocrite. I’m not sure.
- The free Keyword Research Guide has also been updated (new commercial intent video).
All the best,
Please leave a comment below.
Note that I don’t reply to all comments, but I do read them all. If I don’t reply to your comment, it most likely means that I agree with what you say and don’t have anything meaningful to add, myself. I appreciate and read all comments and your comments play an important part in what I write about, so keep them coming.
Spammy comments are always filtered or removed. No surprise there.
Note that I don’t reply to all comments, but I do read them all. If I don’t reply to your comment, it most likely means that I agree with what you say and don’t have anything meaningful to add, myself. I appreciate and read all comments and your comments play an important part in what I write about, so keep them coming.
Spammy comments are always filtered or removed. No surprise there.
Hi Shane,
I have been following your reviews/IM Impact for the past few weeks. You are honest and your free training videos and guides are far better than crapy WSO’s.
Almost all WSO’s..if not all of them are just rehashed stuff, crappy content and offers zero value. Of course there are some exceptions..to this when you have good plugins/tools.
And yes..most of them WF members form groups and promote each other WSO’s like hell…initial mails…launch/price increase and what not.
I bought quite a few WSO’s when I was getting started..but not anymore.
My honest opinion on WSO/IM Niche in particular.
best
Vicky
Hi Vicky,
That’s been my experience as well. There are some good WSO’s, but they’re hard to find, among all the crap.
The current trend is that most WSO sellers give 100% commission on their products, so they have to recoup their investment by promoting other people’s products. Which is silly, because in the end, people are just constantly promoting other people’s stuff and the only products they aren’t earning money with are their own…
Hi Shane,
I agree entirely with what you say re WSO’s, some are absolutely excellent and well worth the small investment but a large proportion are worthless re-constituted crap.
I think the word to sum up your sentiments in the second paragraph above, and one which I have used frequently to describe the whole of the WSO scenario, is “incestuous”.
Best wishes,
Great decision! I absolutely agree with your assessment about the warrior forum and I personally try to stay as far away from it as possible.
Shane,
I think you are correct about the Warrior Form. It has become a different place over the past few years. I remember when I started online a few years ago it was a different place. The offers were top notched and you did get your money worth. But the Form seems to be following the general trend of the internet getting all kind of spam and junk products. People now days just don’t want to work for anything. They want the quick and easy way to get to the big pay off.
Thanks for calling it like it is now.
Carolyn
As far as my thoughts on the WF, you pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.
I got an account on WF a few years ago, and bought some products there. Pretty much all that I bought there overpromised and underperformed. The worst of the underperformers were made-for-you niche sites that I got about a year ago, and I will probably allow those domains to expire, because they aren’t even making back the yearly domain registration fee. I’m now convinced that the AdSense niche site is a fundamentally broken business model that is so crowded that the percentage of people who actually make anything numbers in the (low) single digits.
The stuff that I have had the most success with is ebooks on topics where I have personal experience. My wife started me in that direction by writing an ebook for first-time cruise vacationers, which almost immediately earned more than all of the other attempts at internet marketing we have tried in the last four years combined. We are now busy co-authoring a 3-part ebook on ‘prepping.’
So, I have pretty much lost interest in WSO. I’ve even put some of the folks I bought stuff from on my auto-delete list because they hit their mailing lists every day (sometimes more often).
I wouldn’t think of you as a hypocrite for occasionally running WSO’s, but as you said, it’s a brand conflict. And the problem with running under a pseudonym is that it would hint that you were really ashamed of it — and if you got ID’d, that would be a problem. I don’t think there is much future in selling anything that you have to sell anonymously.
Congrats on the success with the ebook!
The way I see it, I’m doing no harm by offering good products on the WSO forum, even though I wouldn’t recommend anyone go shopping, there.
On the other hand, I haven’t done a WSO in ages. I’ll give it another go or two, though. Plus, I never make a product just for the sake of selling it as a WSO.
One of the other commenters reminded me that the last time I went to the
WF, I saw an ad for a WordPress plugin that looked like it might be useful. But before I bought it, I did some searching through the WordPress library, and found several that looked like they did the same thing. I tried one, and it worked for exactly what I wanted. The lesson there is that, at least for WordPress, if there is something you need to do, there is probably a free plugin that does that.
I have bought a few of the cheap wso products and I find in general that they are little more than a re-hash of other products. I was disappointed but they helped me realise that it is about building a business and not get rich quick schemes and dreams. I left that forum as it was a distraction and now focus 100% on building around 10 good quality sites and using Adsense. So content writing and Adsense is what I am going to build my business on with the odd affiliate site added every 2 months just for a little diversity. Since I started doing that I am now making $1 a day. Nothing special I know but 6 weeks ago I was tearing my hair out and now at least I am getting something.
Your honesty is always appreciated Shane and good luck with your decision and hope it works for you.
That might be one of the good things about WSOs: you can learn the lesson of avoiding rich quick schemes at a fairly low price.
And I mean that honestly. I think we’re all tempted at some point. Better to spend a little on WSOs and get burned, than to spend $2K on some guru product…
Hi Shane,
Well I understand your viewpoint. I think you may be both a bit right and a little bit wrong.
What I mean by that is that as you pointed out the negative connotation is certainly true for the “make money” products on Clickbank.
The Warrior forum is a little different. While it is true that there is plenty of marketers cross selling to each other, the expectations and prices are dramatically different.
In Clickbank a poor sucker buys a $47 magic button product with 4 upsells, downsells and side sells that end up with done for you products and personal coaching for $2000. In general the Warrior forum marketers get blasted for selling anything higher priced and certainly once they apply more than one OTO. The grumbles start at even ONE OTO.
OK so to complete my thought. If you buy a magic pill product off Clickbank, there is a high probability you just got scammed and maybe for $497 or something.
If you buy everything in a WSO you rarely spend more than $40. It is so much easier to get $40 of value out of a single tidbit of information that is helpful on the Warrior Forum. Sure a bunch of that is crap too, but if you eat a $9 report no big deal. Over the years, many Clickbank products I purchased were scams and got refunded. I don’t think I have had to refund a WSO yet. I could always get $7 of value out of it.
I understand your desire to become associated with business building. I agree. The only products I have of yours demonstrate nothing but quality. But as you said, a WSO is a great way to make a few bucks, build a list etc.
I do see several Warriors who also subscribe to business building and try to teach that on the warrior forum as well.
But even a make money product on Clickbank doesn’t automatically have to be bad either.
Keep up the great work. SECockpit rocks!!!
Rex
Thanks for your comment!
I see your point. It’s definitely better to get a half-decent product for $5 than it is to waste $50 on software that doesn’t work, for example.
And I don’t mean to say that every WSO seller sells rubbish. Just most of them, I get the impression.
Hi Shane
I’ve been a member of the WF since 2010 and I’ve certainly noticed quite a few changes since then.
Firstly, it’s true that the number of overhyped WSO’s has increased. However, there are still some good products in the mix. I’ve purchased 3 WSO’s in the last year and all of them were great products. It definitely helps to have the BS filters in full operational mode when assessing a WSO.
My tips for helping you determine if a WSO is potentially a good product is:
1. Don’t buy it immediately. Wait at least a few days and read the feedback on the LAST page (feedback on the first page are quite often from people who have a free review copy or are friends of the WSO owner).
2. Hasn’t been cross promoted to death by all the “big name” marketers.
3. Is up front about any OTO’s, refund and support policies.
Another thing I’ve noticed about the WF is the increasing trend for it to be spammed by bots or people purely interested in getting their sig links posted. That said, junk/spam posts generally don’t last very long.
Now, I’m not saying everything about the WF is bad, otherwise my post count there wouldn’t be so high. I find the WF (like a lot of social mediums) is useful for gaining contacts and targeted traffic.
I try not to spend too much time there, as I know it can suck a lot of potentially productive time.
Regarding the terms “Internet Marketing” and “Online Marketing”, these are generally used as synonyms. I prefer to use the term “Online Marketing” as to me, it seems to be more respectable. As you point out “Internet Marketing” is so often associated with all those scammy Clickbank products, that I like to disassociate myself from using the term.
Cheers
Peter
Thanks, Peter! If you got a 3-for-3 on good WSOs, you must have an especially well honed BS filter, so thanks for sharing your guide. Maybe you should sell the “how to avoid bad WSOs” guide as a WSO. :P
Now that idea of creating a “how to avoid bad WSOs” is a great idea!
Hiya Shane
I really agree with what you have to say regarding the bad name that Internet Marketing has gotten due to these poor quality Clickbank products.
I feel the Warrior forum does have its good and bad points – I have had genuine help on there and had access to talk to marketers directly when this would have not been possible otherwise.
I feel that it is a good place to test products before you release to the public and some WSO’s are fantastic value (Look at John Thornhill’s WSO Domination). Also, many are overhyped rubbish as well.
I am about to release my first product on there before putting it out live to the public – it will at lease test out peoples response to it and let me put things right before it goes live.
There has been a bad name due to all this Paypal account banning as well which hasn’t helped much.
Saying that, it seems that everyone is putting at least one product on there – I recently bought Alex Jeffery’s coaching for $27.00 which was a fantastic bargain!
I also feel that you are correct when you describe it as a sub-niche and it does seem to be a bit of an ‘island’ floating on its own in the marketplace.
I am trying to build my online business and my sales funnel as a genuine, value giving, information business under the guidance of Lee McIntyre who is my coach.
I think if you can use the WSO forum for what it is worth, and not get too wrapped up in it, it can ge a good list building and testing ground for a product.
I do not feel that the Warrior pro platform will last though as it has all gotten too big at the mo and I think that it will all come crashing down soon in one way or another.
This is a really good blog BTW and full of good content, which is what the online community needs to get the good name back from the damage that the ‘push button’ mind set has done for the industry.
Ok I hope that I’ve not rambled on too much – keep up the good work!
keep cool
xxxxcarlxxxx
Thanks for your reply, Carl!
That’s definitely the right approach, you’re taking. I got my first few customers and subscribers from the WF as well, so I’m not knocking it as a traffic source. As long as you keep being an exception in the marketplace, it will help your business.
Thanks Shane
I’m pleased that we see things in the same light and thanks for your feedback :)
regards
xxxxcarlxxxx
I got upset with a WSO sales video only yesterday. I could not believe what was said. It’s on a topic I’ve done a lot of work on recently – we actually created a free WordPress plugin that does the same thing the WSO plugin does – and I was amazed that the guy selling the WSO made the claims he did. They are plain misleading. I don’t care that he is charging for something I am giving away, I just don’t agree with the wild claims.
In answer to your question Shane, I am PRO Warrior Forum in that there are some good people and some good tips to be had in it. But you need to be experienced and not soft in the head to recognise them amongst all the rubbish. That’s the problem.
Hope you don’t mind me linking to my blog post about this WSO that got my attention yesterday. http://www.devonwebdesigners.com/4576/
Liz, I know what WSO you are referring to. Your comments on the author’s WSO really helped me make a good decision to abandon it quickly. The author even ignored your last comment from what I can tell.
I’ll follow your link and take you up on your plugin.
Shane, thanks for this timely and needed post!
Thank you Dawn! I was also glad to see Shane’s post – very timely. The WSO guy got my original comment censored because I broke the rules and linked to my free plugin. He ignored my questions about multi-author blogs and company logos. Perhaps because his plugin doesn’t handle those.
Thanks for the link to your site about this plugin.
Yes, it’s rather surprising some of the things that happen at the warrior forum.
Any “idea”, out in the open, can be turned into a WSO and as you rightly pointed out, we buy them because most of us are just ignorant.
Liz, thanks for your generosity.
It’s a real shame about the Warrior Forum that people like Shane are concluding they need to distance themselves from it a bit. We need more Shanes there not less. Maybe the owners of it will figure it out and review the WSOs properly before they are launched.
I think the problem there is that the owner is making a killing from the listing fees. The higher the churn-rate on the products, the better for the owner, so they have zero incentive to do anything to limit the amount of WSOs being offered (hence the “no WSO reviews” rule).
Liz: Nice plugin, I’m glad you posted so I could pick it up. (Too bad there’s not a way for everyone to know about it and get their money back if they purchansed that high-powered, ‘secret’ WSO.)
They will find out eventually I guess. I wish the Warrior Forum could be cleaned up. Just think how amazing it would be if it were. Did you notice how after my (and one other person’s) post about this only being about rel=author, the plugin guy got his friends to come in and say how amazing their results were with the WSO and that their faces were showing up already. Where is the proof of that I wonder. The plugin alone can’t make your face show up. You need a certain amount of Klout too.
If you are using AuthorSure, any problems just contact me for help.
Hi Shane,
Bravo to you for another honest, down to earth marketing post on IM Impact.
I agree with you on all points. Of the WSO’s I have purchased, most were rehashed information and a couple of them were obviously PLR that was just
repackaged and not even re-written!
Another thing I find strange is all the emphasis on the number of posts a person makes and most people just post positive things on each others threads just to get their post number up. Then all of a sudden they have credibility because they have so many posts.
You see a lot of comments, like “I don’t have to read the sales copy – I just ordered because he/she wrote it”. My email is flooded with WSO affiliate promotions all of which claim that they endorse the offers which mostly turn out to be over hyped.
I agree with Vicky above: your information is honest and I would much rather read/see/hear what you have to say than someone who is just trying to make a quick commission. The funny part is, that in the long run, you will make more sales from customers like me who value your products and ideas than the other guys who are just trying to sell, sell, sell to anyone, anytime.
I find Dr. Andy and Tiffany Dow to be straight up and honest and have learned from them as well. You guys set the example as far as I am concerned. Anyone truly wanting to build their online business will benefit greatly by the examples you are setting and following.
Keep up the good work!
Allen
Hi Allen,
You know, that’s funny. You’re totally right about the post-count thing. The more posts you have, the greater your credibility as a forum member, apparently. And so you can go around leaving pointless comments, just to get that number to climb.
It’s funny how people will compete to get “more points”, even when the points mean nothing.
Hi Shane,
You can’t get rid of WTF is WSO! ;)
Something hit me as I watched the video and your definition of Internet Marketing versus Online Marketing, perhaps the title of this site should be … OM Impact :)…
Anyways, definitely something to think about :)
Thanks as always,
Jim
Hi Jim,
To this day, I regret not calling it “WTF is WSO”.
And you’re right about IM Impact. I originally had some other names in mind, but they were all taken. You know how tough it is to find good domain names that aren’t being squatted on already.
Thank you for making a video about what I’ve been thinking for quite awhile. I just removed myself from someone’s list this week who sends me about 3-5 WSO offers each week which is absurd. How can I possibly take implement all of these things on a deep level? I can’t.
My hard drive is litered with a bunch of WSO crap. It’s a question of you get what you pay for. If you believe that someone who sells a cheap product is giving you all the information you need to make it work then you are just plain foolish.
Are there some awesome WSO’s on the WF? Yes, but you will be digging for days to find them. I remember buying one WSO where the guy was selling a bunch of videos. I bought it and uploaded all the videos to an established YouTube channel with hundreds of videos and my account was terminated for violating there terms of service. I was dumb and didn’t know but I paid an enormous price.
Hey Rick,
Sorry to hear that. I lost a good YT account as well. It’s tough, but on the plus side, I’ve learned a ton about online video and how to keep control of your own content, since then.
We all pay for the lessons we learn, I guess.
Hi Shane,
I think you are absolutely correct about the Warrior Forum and the WSOs. I don’t mean to say that most are worthless products, though some clearly are.
Here is what I seem to find there:
1 – Products with great headlines selling push-button riches to folks new to IM and those who don’t yet understand that IM is real work. If it were as easy as some these products claim, everyone would be rich.
2 – One shot products (often scripts or plugins). People develop a product to fill a perceived need, hype it up and sell it. After the hype dies off, and the 30 or 60 day money back guarantee has passed for the bulk of the sales, they quit supporting it and start selling the next great thing.
3 – Some actually do provide good information and/or tools.
The biggest problem with the Warriors Forum and all the WSOs is that it blurs your focus. If you suffer from the ‘next shiny object’ syndrome you really need to stay away from there.
You are right about the groups of marketers that tend to promote each others products. That way they can create a lot of hype and noise in your inbox which helps to make the product look more important than it really is. Often those groups form around a particular sub-niche like promoting Amazon or how to do PPC… that type of thing.
I think I have found a couple of good IM people through the Warrior Forum, but most of the really good contacts I have made and products I use have come through other sources. Some through searches, but mostly through people I have met in other forums.
Hi Doug,
I agree that the worst part is how it can distract you. It’s so easy to buy a dozen different cheap WSOs and end up not knowing what to really focus on.
Plus, because WSOs all need to be super cheap, it’s created a marketplace of low expectations and under-delivery.
Hey Shane,
Interesting point about WSO’s. I have personally used it to buy/sell WSO’s and also for building my list and making connections. I do have to say that occasionally you do come across some great products there like cool wordpress plugins which are simply functional, useful and are not accompanied by an outrageous sales letter so it’s not as bad as long as you have a clear direction with your business and not jumping from one idea to another.
Thanks for your comment!
Absolutely, if you know what your focus is and you only buy stuff that supports that, you’re already avoiding half of all potential IM pitfalls.
Great video and good decision too Shane. There is a very responsive intermediate to advanced level marketer audience out there seeking final ‘polishing’ tips. And us guys get tired of being categorized in the dummy start-up market niche. Many of us are indeed already capitalizing, making a quid or two, but want to take it further. So the sooner people like your self realize this the better for all, everyone will benefit, including the retailer or information creator.
High volume exact search term related training material for SEO, SEO services, internet marketing, keyword tools etc etc. That’s what we look for, and end up putting the credit card back in the wallet because the junk out there is not credible and does not quench our thirts.
Nice one mate!
That’s a good point. So many IM products are made for people who are new and haven’t made a cent online. Nothing wrong with that, but there’s a whole market of people that are beyond the newbie stage, that often gets ignored.
I suspect that is because it is easier to sell to a ‘newbie’ as they don’t know any better.
As people get scammed more and more they get a feeling for what is hype and what is not, and so they become more difficult to sell to.
If you were someone looking to make easy money wouldn’t you rather target the newbie than someone with more experience who can maybe see through the holes in your sales copy?
Steve.
Most of the ‘stuff’ being sold on ‘The Net’ should only be given away — if these guys truly want to help folks… It is all about giving to get!
I agree with your distinction between ‘internet marketing’ and ‘online marketing’, and the reasons why you want to disassociate yourself with the former. Too bad about the name of your site though! hahaha
Yeah, I should have thought of better wording to distinguish “good” from “bad” IM.
Beautiful move Shane,
The WF is the bad neighborhood we all should stay away from if we desire a real business. I read somewhere that the internet is starting to “grow-up” based on how Google is making it harder to rank with bs spam sites. All the better for the real entreprenuers. I’ve noticed some IM’s that are now selling on WF which I used to follow but now i dont just for that reason. BTW, any new upgrades for SECockpit? Best product in its class!
Thanks, Rob!
We’re always working on updates and new features for SECockpit. It won’t be long till we introduce some more goodies. :)
I’ve been a fan, follower, and customer of yours for quite some time. I appreciate thought provoking sunday videos like this. I also respect your decision to clean up your own house (so2speak). It’s just a further indication of your integrity and why I value your way of thinking.
Having followed you from such an early point, I’ve been able to see how you have fine tuned yourself over the long haul, using an organic approach of continued improvement. This is valuable insight that I bank on and strive to replicate.
Thanks Shane.
_Matt
As always Shane, you cut right to the chase.
The Warrior Forum is a prime example that the easiest people to sell to with internet marketing is other marketers. The majority are looking for the magic button which will bring in a ton of cash with no work in return. They move from product to product like bees in a field full of flowers. All looking to game the system and each other.
I’ve come to realise that the way forward is to produce my own products. That way I take responsability for everything. No need to look over my shoulder wondering who in the click chain is scrubbing or shaving. I can split test every stage and give my customers a QUALITY product that I can be proud of. It’s little wonder that Google has had to slap marketers for their ‘wild west’ cowboy practices.
Keep it real and telling it like it is.
Graham
Hey Graham,
That is so spot on! Everything you say is exactly why I prefer selling my own products and services as well and it’s why I recommend that as the basis of an online business.
Oh Yes, your definition of IM and OM – you are are right when differentiating where some of the junk is coming from, but IM is still a serious market, it’s how offline business still find online marketers.
See, ‘internet marketing’ is still an official Google Places search category… in fact it’s still the only master category available for marketing, unless you create a custom category. We have to optimize websites for traffic and Google Places pages for 7 pack positioning.
So the term IM is still valid and should not be ignored totally.
The term IM has just been over-used, incorrectly. People need to understand the best way to use it, and how not too any more.
Hi Shane – I agree with your assessment of the Warrior Forum. I bought your WSO product and it is good. Will I still be able to log into the product or do I need to download it? Thanks.
The member’s area will remain online. I’m just going to remove all points of sale.
Sometimes you just cannot protect people from themselves.
If you see a WSO that is screaming at you about how much money someone made, you have to be intelligent enough to know it is BS. If I am making a million a year working 2 hours a day do you think I am going to be trying to push some worthless offer? Do you think I am even going to tell you how I do it?
Reminds me of the chef who gives you his secret recipe and leaves out the key ingredient.
I have bought a few plugins that were pretty good. I have bought some info WSO’s for 10 dollars or less that were OK.
But, if you are sitting around waiting for the next WSO to make your fortune you are deluding yourself.
I will tell you that the Warrior Offers have taught be a lot about sales pages, pitches and videos.
Speaking of videos, you said you updates your Video Marketing Blueprint. I have been looking at buying it and wonder what the updates covered. Also, when are you going to cut the price and make it a Warrior Special Offer? ;-)
Hi Martin,
The updates to VMB are about the technical side of creating online video. I changed the videos to be more clear about the significance of video encoding, video delivery and video players. Plus, I recommend a new and better online video service and a new do-it-yourself version for creating “self-hosted” videos and using a free player.
I had a WSO for this product back when it launched, actually. No special offers for it are planned at the moment. :)
Hi Shane,
I agree with you.
90% of WSOs I’ve purchased in last 2 years have been CRAP.
Of the remaining 10% over half have quickly BECOME crap because vendors failed to update or offer any support, even though virtually all claim “life-time updates and support are included.”
I doubt that the remaining GOOD WSOs justify the time spent on the bad ones.
I don’t think you are being hypocritical in doing a WSO, so long as it is one of the (few) good ones — and I’m sure it will be, coming from you.
Best regards,
Oran
Thanks, Oran!
That’s another thing I don’t like about cheap products: usually support and updates are lacking. And it’s no wonder. How much work will someone put in to keep a product going that cost $5 and where they even gave 100% commission to their affiliates? Just doesn’t add up as a long term business model.
Shane I love your controversial posts! I too have a hard drive full of WSO garbage. However I have some real gems that I have bought from there which I use all the time.
It’s very hard to pick which ones are going to be worthwhile before buying because of all the hype. And of course they probably count on the fact that most people won’t bother requesting a refund for anything under $20.
Thanks
Wendy
Hi Wendy,
Good thing you got a few good ones among the heap! :)
And you’re right, the “can’t be bothered to refund” thing seems to be a factor in low priced products.
I think with the WSO’s it’s looking at them in the same way we all ended up looking at Clickbank,anything that offered instant riches for no work was clearly just going to be another shiny object marketed by the usual suspects happy to insult our intelligence and ride off into the sunset with the money of the less than wary
Clearly a percentage of that group now operate on the Warrior forum having been stopped from doing it on Clickbank,others it seems have just carried on selling shiny objects there
I’ve bought some great stuff on the Warrior WSO’s but as always buyer beware because others are clearly not worthy of our time
Thanks for sharing Tony
Shane,
I have to agree with your assessment of the Warrior Forum. While there is the odd gem to be had there it has definitely gone in the direction you have described. People are just out to get money as quickly as they can selling products who want to make it as quickly as they can. And what disappoints me more than anything now-a-days is that people use the Forum to build a mailing list just to turn around and basically spam it with wso offers EVERY day.
Like most who have been on the internet for any length of time I have come to realise the need to be focused and not distracted by the next bright and shining thing. It takes discipline to focus but when you do it you begin to find that this internet lifestyle thing actually does work. And the other thing is you have to offer value. And that means being of value to others with your knowledge or expertise or with your products. I think you have achieved both. And finally I am on my way….. since the light was turned on this year for me in this regard.
Thanks for you commitment to bring value, to avoid the hype and to be real.
Graham :)
Hey Shane,
Long time no visit! Been busy with other projects offline recently. Oh the dreaded WSO and Warrior Forum. I suppose you could say it is like the mar mite scenario.
You love it or hate it. I would say I am stuck in the middle. It is a good place to find answers to some marketing problems you have but you can also easily get sucked into the WSO section and become a WSO serial buyer.
Get onto many WSO marketers list and be bombarded with offers.
I think it is a good place if you use it correctly and do not get too sucked in. If you have a product you are going to release you can use the WSO section to test the water before going fully public. Get some testimonials for your product and see if you need to make changes for the better.
So I think it does have its space on the net you just have to be disciplined on how you utilize this section of the web!
There are some great bargains and really well put together products that are a real steal. But then there are some crappy rehashed mumbo jumbo thats not even worth the $5 to $10 they are asking.
It is like a tight community over there at times and can become a bit of you scratch my back and will scratch yours. But if you look beyond some of the hyped crap and keep your feet firmly on the ground its not too bad after all.
Craig
Lot of stuff going on in the Warrior Forum. I’m on a mailing list for new WSO’s ( I like to look at the WordPress plugins ). Emails I get keep me connected. I don’t hang out there. I see it as a pool of red water from new marketers looking for the next best thing. Yes there are good products but, there is a ton of hype.
Looks like you have defined your online presence a little bit more. Good to hear that!
Regards
Stanley
Hi, Shane
In fact I haven’t buy lots of products online before see this post both on clickbank and wso after I realize lots of them are crapy after I get visit several great guy sites like you.
Not to say there are all rubish there, but lots of them are. Stay some distance to these will defintely protect your brand and make you out of the box.
Great decision!
Hello Shane,
Naturally, I have to be the one that is different. I just snapped up your farewell WSO, bekez that is EXACTLY what I have been meaning to look for, for the longest time now. I had NO idea that the info I was curious about was right here all the time. Ha!
You see, I have exactly one good WSO in me…maybe. Mulling it over. I confess I need some help to make up my mind. I surely know zip about the WF process.
Other than that, dittos to what you and everyone else has said here. All of of it.
The very last post I made a week ago there on the ol WF was an attempt to elicit the answer to “Why do we do that which we do not wish to do and do not that which we wish to do,” ergo…buy those drat nabbed push button WSO gee whizzers.
I guess for some it’s an obsession like gambling and there is no help for them. For others, it’s a learning curve figuring out which WSO’s are good and which ones to stay far far away from.
What is particularly troubling lately is that the upsell process seems to have been honed.
Used to be it was a none to clever bait and switch where you would only get half the info on the first pass. But nowadays, even with standalone WSO’s, well worth the money with great info, you are “encouraged” to take the next step. It’s a very sneaky and clever Jedi mind trick. Only rarely do you get one without the added cleverness.
Having said all of that, and having deleted 99% of the WSO offers from my mail for a year or two now, here I go again. I just bought your danged WSO, sight unseen, because the I happen to know the suggester wouldn’t give poor Norm a bum steer! Ha!
Norm
Shane,
I think WF is a microcosm of the bigger online picture. There are 2 camps online – those who are out primarily to make a buck and those who are out to build a quality business. But, with the FTC & Google changes affecting already established online services who are tightening-up their own quality control, I think (& hope) we’ll see a reduction in these fly-by-night products such as those that tend to appear on WF. Good riddance!
Sounds like you are making a good move for your own business in disassociating yourself from WF and it’s “dark side”. From what I gather, what you are really saying is you don’t want to be known mostly as a WF marketer, but more so as a quality legitimate online entrepreneur.Right? But that said, there’s nothing wrong with selling quality products on WF once in a while as a professional online marketer. Besides,WF needs more quality products on there, so by all means, please add some for the rest of us.
I myself have been changing my approach…not wanting to get sucked into that IM rabbit hole…I do plan to use WF, but only as one of many marketing resources to help build my business.
I do have one question: do you have a significant portion of your subscribers originally from past WF activity?
Cheers!
Louise
Hi Shane
Let me say here that the ONLY real money I’ve ever made online was with a WSO. I won’t be retiring to a tropical island on those profits any time soon but the experience restored my faith in the dream of online marketing success. I know it was value added because you were kind enough to personally review it and give me an endorsement. I can’t tell you how much confidence to proceed that approval gave me. If I haven’t thanked you properly, it’s long overdue. Thank You! Sincerely.
That said, I have seen the same changes on the WF that others have pointed out. As I recall, there was an approval process to post WSOs. If WSO quality has changed over the years, it must be due in part to changes in that process. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath. In the same way as ClickBank has made recent attempts to clean up their act, maybe it’s time to call on the Warrior Forum to do the same.
I guess we agree on the problem, maybe not on the solution. That’s my 2 cents.
Shane,
Your assessment of the WF is “spot on.”
I know you’ve made the right decision about disassociating yourself, because you’re nothing but a real “Class Act,” and you just don’t need to be affiliated with a lot of individuals that scam others to earn a living.
God Bless You and continue the great work!
Bob
Shane,
I could not agree with you more. I have been a member of the Warrior Forum for many years now and have watched it spiral downwards, especially in the past year or so. More and more people are now simply creating products for the forum and we see a growing gang of ‘affiliates’ who are making a killing by building lists simply to sell the rubbish which is being pushed there every day now.
It is sad to see a forum which many people once held in high esteem disintegrating before our eyes.
Sad to say, I believe you are right to separate yourself and your business from the forum.
Don
The warrior forum is horrible…
I dont purchase wso i dowmload them from my private black hat forum… Im scared of risking of a waste of money… Though I hapily purchased your ghost url, backlink battleplan and wso cash blueprint ( was planning on making a decent wso about seo).
There is a funny blog about WF. http://www.warriorforumsucks.com
By the way Shane i think in your product arsenal is missing a niche sites course with a good niche research + wp, maybe some seo too, well yOu know something like rapid profit formula
All the best
Hi Shane – I’ve no experience of the Warrior Forum but trust your judgement.
Whenever I looked at it I felt repelled and stressed – a sure sign to me that something was wrong. In contrast I feel relaxed and comfortable being involved with you and your products.
You have saved me a bunch of time in avoiding exploring WSO any further.
Big confidence vote from me!
with kindness,
Leo
PS I just bought SECockpit to complement Backlink Battleplan and look forward to sharing the results of building a real business here in the months to come.
Sorry, I’m not with you on any of this.
Most of the WSO’s I have purchased over the last 2 + years have been good value for money spent.
Many times I have found new or actionable information that I either would not have thought of or did not have the step-by-step blue print to follow through on.
Are you saying that MAO Flynn, Robert Deveau, Chris Munch, Peter Garety, John Pearce and many others don’t have anything to offer of value to the Internet Marketing Community?
Yes, I admit WSO is a slick operation and Mike Lantz has set it up properly to achieve scarcity but I see it as the only real way for specialty players to achieve lift off.
In fact I’d go further than that and say its easy to diss WSOs if your a marketer that has already achieved liftoff… like you have-Shane.
As to spamming your list with WSO offers …this is where caveat emptor matters.
I try to be selective in my choices but if the product does not meet my expectations I can usually get a refund.
Finally, as to the hype factor, for sure there’s an avalanche of hype in The Warrior Forum but the internet marketing community writ large is rife with HYPE!
I suppose I would be willing to modify my comments if I thought that there was or could be a viable internet marketing community alternative to The Warrior Forum/WSO but I think the dynamism and monthly volume of sales achieved speaks for itself.
Respectfully,
PV
I’m not sure I understand this – Are you suggesting that the only way for someone in the internet marketing space to gain traction is by doing business on the Warrior Forum?
great video
I agree which is why I never buy WSO’s I only download them for free thru blackhat forums
if I find it valuable then and only then do i buy the product
I completely agree that you don’t have to throw a stone very far to find a douche bag on the Warrior Forum.
PV referred to “WSO of the day” by Mike Lantz provides a great service by showcasing WSOs that usually provide substance. I’d like to point out that “WSO’s that can be found in warriorforum.com/warrior-special-offers-forum” are different that a product that has been selected as “WSO of the Day”.
The problem with buying a WSO of the day is that with each purchase you get put on an email list for over hyped garbage product offers.
The main problem with warrior forum, is that 99% of the “experts”, such as MAO Flynn, Robert Deveau, Chris Munch, Peter Garety, John Pearce, are only experts in outsourcing and building up email lists.
Warrior forum as a whole offers very little relevant expert help with organic SEO or social media marketing.
I completely agree with your decision to distance yourself from the beautiful disaster that is the Warrior Forum, and encourage you to still have one foot in. I found you through a webinar about SEcockpit hosted by the non-seo expert Keith “Jesus is my Sponsor” Dougherty.
Shane
I don’t visit the WF too often as I recognised early on that it is a den of vipers with just a handful of useful people.
However, one recent experience has left me in the same mindset at you are stating here.
It was hailed as the biggest launch ever on WF, to me it contained the most nasty aspects of marketing.
Demand was created by removing of the buy buttons, now this sometimes happens but usually only when you are setting up a WSO, many people said they felt they were deliberately being removed only so that the vendor could put them pack and hold the price to feed that demand.
The WSO was marketing it as
“Discover How I Got 245,025 Visitors To ONE SITE In 48 Hours”
The sales page used STUPID language, (the first sign of a dodgy WSO) including
“… And Became Invincible To The Google Algorithm”
The product sales patter included
“An in-depth 7-Day Online Masterclass that lays out, in detail, every aspect of my own highly refined method of traffic generation that you won’t find anywhere else… because nobody else teaches it! It will challenge you to crush it online!”
“Remember this isn’t a Viral Marketing ‘trick’… it’s a complete business strategy to skyrocket your site traffic.”
“I’m going to clear up any and all misconceptions you may have about Real-World Viral Marketing, and go on to show you how to monetize your new found abilities the best way I know how.”
The real product turned out to be the OTO, a social network plugin that expanded the typical free AddThis functionality to include customizable buttons with words like “Hate, Dislike, Disagree, Agree, Love” or whatever you want.
Actually to call it an OTO is wrong because it was always available and continually pushed into your face at every opportunity, so I will call it the UPSELL.
This plugin was available for sale elsewhere on a dedicated website for LESS than it was being sold for in the UPSELL, that was amended and the price raised on the dedicated website.
How this was sold caused the biggest stink; first you had the UPSELL video promising a potential of a billion users – I kid you not; yeh right the total number of Facebook & Twitter registered users (including duplicates, foreign members who can’t read your language etc) are all potential users.
People were told the UPSELL had three versions, a basic, advanced and elite developer version. Now you know how it is, you don’t want restrictions so you go buy the best one you can afford. But then you kind of see through it so you decline the high price and are taken to the DOWNSELL, this promises the same PLUGIN without the crappy bonus of some shite you don’t need or want.
Note that both the UPSELL and DOWNSELL have prices that increase with every sale – a shoddy practice for UPSELLS when it starts at $27 and was at over $37 very quickly (one of the reasons it overtook the price on the dedicated website which had been tripled).
So you go ahead and buy the Elite complete DOWNSELL only to be taken to a further UPSELL, this tells you that your elite super-duper “complete” version is not so complete, because unlike other plugins, it can’t update Twitter. Apparently the vendor discovered this during the development and rushed in this functionality and your price today, another $17.
Unfortunately the worst is yet to come. You see when people posted ANYTHING the slightest bit negative in the sales thread, IT WAS DELETED. Now this was not people breaking Warrior Forum rules, there were genuine posts that were entirely within the rules. The vendor justified this to Mike Lantz by saying the webinars had not been delivered yet so negative comments could not be justified. That was BS because you are supposed to be allowed to complain about the sales process.
The affiliates piled in posting more wonderful comments, all the time not disclosing to the 50000 users that they had sent to the thread that they had a material gain in making such comments.
The same thing happened in the webinars, the real questions posted by users were ignored, all questions were scripted and when people realized this and repeated their questions they were thrown off the webinar (something they had PAID to access).
4 people sent me PM’s telling me they were reporting this thread and the whole sale to this FTC.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
One person sent me a PM saying they had published deleted comments at http://www.cez1.net/
For me the despicable tactics used in this WSO underline why the spammy internet marketing you describe cannot be trusted to police itself.
No consumer could possibly have made an informed purchasing decision about that WSO because not only were all the negative posts deleted, but the affiliates making the sycophantic posts all benefited from material gain. If they had made such claims in an email or on a website they would have to comply with FTC disclaimer regulations.
The webinars were slow with content dragged out, the vendor had some interesting things to say but nothing you would not pick up by reading Seth Godin’s blog, of course the whole thing led into a sales funnel and he continues to fire off emails to try and reinforce trust and sell sell sell. Stepping back I can kind of admire the whole process, it reeks of Rich Schefren tactics, but he may have got them elsewhere.
It seems to me that as Clickbank cleaned up its terms and so the shady tactics have moved to the warrior forum where they are clearly not policed at at. The “rules” work against the innocent consumer and I comment you for taking this stand.
Excellent Post…mate! I appreciate taking your time and posting the feedback on so called munch/pigeon/trophy/claw or whatever he calls it.
Truth be told..all of munch…products SUCKS!!
best
Vicky
Sounds like you decided to ask for a refund. How did that go?
This WSO was less than $10 and the owner presented 2 hour live webinars four times each day for a week. How can one make living that way?
Of course there were ‘upsells’, that’s how it works. But, as I recall, everytime an upsell was offered, there was an emphatic statement that you didn’t NEED it to be successful. It would only enhance and improve your results. Isn’t that what an upsell is supposed to do? (quite different than, “Oops, I forgot to tell you this is useless crap unless you buy XYZ too.”)
Anyway, it is clear that not all WSO’s are good investments but like beauty, value seems to lie in the eye of the beholder. As mention here earlier, the low price of the typical WSO makes the lesson less painful if you get stung.
Shane,
Another great post that represents your integrity well! I agree, there is a lot of junk on Warrior Forum but there is some good stuff too. It’s hard to weed out the good stuff though. I have gotten some great little courses on Warrior Forum but in 2012 I’ve been trying to distance myself from buying stuff on there. Once again, thanks for the great information Shane!
Kevin Ryan
I have purchased a fair few WSO’s over the years, a few were good, but the vast majority were not.
And as someone else has already commented, once you get on some marketer’s lists you are bombarded with emails on a daily basis, sometimes more so. (I’m just sending this out again as the first link didn’t work / the server was overloaded / my email responder had a glitch)
And whatever happened to the idea of one offer email per every four or so of pure content? I receive at least a daily email from one guy, every one is an offer of some sort.
The only reason I have remained subscribed, so far, is to get notification of updates to the plug-in I purchased from him, if an update ever comes that is.
One thing I don’t agree with you though Shane, I don’t think that it would damage your reputation by offering a WSO, if it were a good one, which of course it would be coming from you.
In fact you would be doing many newbies a favour by putting good quality information out to them. The only problem you may have is that if your sales copy was truthful and explained that there may in fact be work involved, then the uptake may not be that great.
Catch 22.
Steve.
Hey, Shane.
Thanks for this. I am stuck on a sales page right now, so I may pick up your product to see if it can help me. Totally agree with everything you say about WF even though I’m about to release a WSO.
Hey Shane
The funny thing about the WSO Section is that a few years ago the cost to run WSO was $20 and (the same amount to “bump” it). The price was then doubled supposedly to cut down on the junk/spam products being put out. However that doesn’t seem to be working out so well.
The forum is just bigger than it used to be with more people viewing the WSO section than before. Even with the increase in listing price more WSOs are being churned out as you said and the owner of the forum MUST be reaping the benefits.
Thanks for the excellent post/video as always.
Hi Shane,
Your video was helpful because there are so many products that sound great, and I always wonder if I should be doing anymore. However, running my agency full-time leaves only so many hours for SEO.
Since I purchased Backlink Battleplan about 9 months ago, I have seen a trend in my own research, and that is that I save all your videos and make time to watch them, and have begun deleting most of the other daily emails I get from all these services that offer me “4 million backlinks right now!”
I trust what you have to say about what’s going on at Google, and what you say about where to best put my time and money than I trust others because you put so much free information that helps me and has produced real results. Honestly, who else posts a video on Christmas Day??
I would like to see you continue your efforts and updates to SE Cockpit, which is an awesome product and also a Backlink Battleplan update (3.0?) because some of the free things have changed (Im Automater, etc.) and I wonder if you still recommend we use them – are they worth paying for? I think there is still value in getting quality backlinks if your site is content rich, but I’d like your updated direction on what backlink activities are still good and which things will get me in trouble if I do too much.
Anyway, you are my main SEO/internet guy that I follow, and I recommend you to everyone I know that is NOT in the same industry as me – LOL.
So downsizing your total product line and putting more time into your several great products that many of us follow religiously is a wise move. Look forward to following what you have to say this year!
I think the warrior forum is great for most people. Yeah there is a lot of junk but this is the same junk sold elsewhere for more. I do think a lot of it is useless but again its the same stuff being sold elsewhere for more. So I think the warrior forum helped me a ton getting started and many others. You just have to start learning what to buy and look at the comments closely because its easy to spot fake reviews.
The warrior forum sucks, it’s a place for product owners in the make money niche to prey on the noobs who doesn’t know anything. Have you ever noticed that when someone starts a very useful thread on how to make money online and it gets tons of views the moderators will usually lock that useful FREE information so that they can direct the eyes to WSOs. And have you ever bought a WSO that you kind of thought it contain information that should of been free? Kind of like.. “Hey I know this new web 2.0 site that not many people know of yet that can get you really good links for free” but if you want it I will put it in a WSO where you can buy it and I will give you a link to that web 2.0 site.