Webinar Platforms, Building an Audience & Other News
Watch the video above to see the first of my subscriber-only updates in a long time. And leave a comment letting me know about your thoughts on the "build an audience from scratch" topic!
255 comments
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Hi Shane, Thanks for sharing in such a human and humble way. This is exactly the course I'd love to have. I'm rebranding after over 30 years of an offline business and having trouble getting a feeling for how to find new clients online, since I've been shaking hands and kissing cheeks all these years. If you need any other details or support, please let me know. I'm delighted with everything I've received from you so far and wish you continued success in all your endeavours in the future. Let's both walk out of our comfort zones together. Rhonda
Thank you for your comment, Rhonda!
You're in an interesting situation. I think you can carry many of your skills over to online and focus on a personal touch and personal style. This is really valuable for audience building, in my experience.
Hey, Shane. Definitely on board with helping you experiment with webinar technology and eager to learn what you discover. Count me in!
Thank you, Hans!
As a Thrive Themes member and avid follower of what and how you do things, I am very interested in building a real audience.
I'm happy to hear that, Nate!
Thanks, Shane, I like the sound of this, for several reasons.
Firstly, I agree that building an engaged audience is far more valuable than 'just' a list, and certainly tons more valuable than chasing social media likes and shares. I don't see nearly enough clarity out there on this distinction.
Second, I believe that we do most of our best work by nailing the fundamental things well - the stuff that's based on strong principles that we can rely on and reuse over time. Far too much attention is paid to short-term shiny objects and fads. Ugh. Even when it comes to tools (e.g. webinar platforms), it's so much more productive and profitable to dig a bit deeper, find what really works, then get maximum use out of it.
And last but not least, since my business partner and I are also working on something we're not sure if we can pull off (at the level we're aiming at), I appreciate your honesty that you also can find this sort of challenge daunting.
Thank you for your comment, Matthew!
I totally agree about the value of solid fundamentals. So important to prioritize.
Shane, I fully agree with your feelings, with your vision and with your strategy about how to build a satisfaying, profiteable and long term internet solopreneur.
And this new challenge is deeply connecting with my own vision: how to create a real small but engaged audience who connect with me in order to really help them.
And, for sure, you have the experience to lead us in this challenge.
Please, go on. I and we'll be here trying to helping you as much as possible.
Thank you very much indeed from Spain for this high value iniciatives!!
Thank you for your support, José!
This is a good insight into what you're thinking about, but Shane this video is quite vague.
I really don't know what you're looking for in the comments here.
Of course if you want to build a course, go ahead. You've earned enough trust for me to say "Hey, I'd like to check out your list building from scratch course". But apart from that I don't know what to say.
Also, there's an entire category named "Build your mailing list" on Thrive Themes. So won't a paid course cannibalize content from that?
In the sense that if you put a price on some knowledge then you can't offer it for free on Thrive Themes and won't it be better if you gave away that knowledge on Thrive Themes to help sell more plugins?
Thanks for your comment, Pulkit! I asked an open question in the hopes of getting a wide variety of people's thoughts, such as yours, right here. :)
You make an interesting point about free vs. paid content. I follow a system that allows me to be as generous as I want with free content, without it ever jeopardizing premium courses. Blog posts and free videos are a totally different format from an entire online course and I wouldn't keep "the best stuff" away from the public in an attempt to sell more of a course.
I'm also not thinking of this specifically in terms of building a mailing list. That's one way it could go, but right now, I'm exploring audience building at a more fundamental level.
I'd love to know more about the system you follow for free vs paid content. In fact, I'd like to know the entire system :)
It's one of the BIG reasons why I haven't given serious thought to creating courses (I do have TONS of awesome things that I would love to teach).
I missed out on buying Thrive Courseware, so if the answer is in there, lemme know. I'm on the waiting list for the next launch anyways.
It is laid out in there, in the context of creating courses AND free content for marketing and audience building purposes, yes. :)
Hi Shane
My first comments are thank you and yes please!
So thank you for the quality of entrepreneur that you are and for the effort you put into innovation essentially paving the way for your own audience. This is why I have subscribed to your list. Also yes to your new project of building an audience for Creators from scratch. I am completely new to building my online presence but it is absolutely important to me to build an audience that is relevant to my message. I am interested in making connections and providing content that is relevant to them so I may continue to serve them purposefully. So a means to dialogue with them would be beneficial. I also plan on using the Thrive Themes Course Builder as part of my platform.
Thanks again. I am looking forward to watching this unfold.
Kind regards
Melinda
Thank you for your comment, Melinda!
Interesting project. Would love to tell my story about the truth of how Wall Street, the banking/monetary system, and the powers that control it all from the shadows really operate. But it's too dangerous. People are regularly taken out for divulging the ugly truth about the "shepherds" who manage us like a herd of sheep.
That's not a great foundation for building an audience, then.
However, there are clearly many people who manage to speak truth to power (and build an audience around it), without stepping over that line. Maybe it's a question of spreading some of the truth, if not all of it.
Hi, Shane, I appreciate your ethical attitude to the Internet business!
Do you know the German platform edudip.de? Do you feel like testing it? I think they are very good.
I have seen your interview with Gordon Kuckluck, so that I know that German is no problem for you. ;-)
Greetings from Berlin, Jutta
Hi Jutta,
Wow, that's bringing back memories... I used edudip ages ago, when I was doing a marketing campaign in German.
WOW! Not being certain what lay ahead, when I started dental school, I had a very similar feeling. The day I graduated I was actually surprised. As it turned out the real surprise was discovering that the quest to learn more, expand and help others never ceases. I applaud you Shane and look forward to your project.
Thank you for your comment! It's interesting that when we arrive at our destination, we realize we haven't arrived at all. :)
I'm delighted every time you release a new course. I'm in!
I suspect that the new course will be a great complement to Course Craft.
Thank you for your kind words, Emil!
Get out of my head already! Seriously, I decide that the best tactic for me to make a reasonable income online is to offer courses/services in the $150 to $200 range. Then you make a video explaining why that's the sweet spot and produce a course to show how to go about it. Now I'm thinking about how I go about building an email list - but decide I want to do it in a way that I only get 'engaged/interested/qualified leads' on my list, that are actually truly interested in me and my offerings and you come up with this video. Where in my house have you hidden your spy cameras? One comment or request for your potential course is that I know I need to produce good content and I'm not afraid of the work involved in doing that. But, at the moment I take too long to produce anything. So tips/lessons on how to hone the skill of producing good quality content (that people actually want to consume) quickly would be one of the things I need most of all right now.
No spy cameras needed, Dave. I just listen to what my audience tells me. That includes you. :)
Very good point about taking long to produce content. This is a huge factor I've noticed as well, when working with other people. It's such an advantage when you can quickly turn your ideas into content.
And important concept for this is what I call the 80% rule: https://activegrowth.com/80-percent/
Hi Shane, Thanks. I guess I have been guilty of striving for perfection in the past. But I'm getting better at going with 'good enough' now. So I resonate with the 80% rule.
I'm still taking too long & I suppose to an extent I just need more practice. But I feel that I take too long to decide the subject/message of the content and to prioritise it and then structure that content in a coherent sensible way too. Thanks to you explanation of your Bento Box method I'm getting better at the structure. No doubt just choosing a topic and producing content on that, then moving to the next - is way better than spending too much time considering the best order/priority to deliver the content in.
Dave, a method that I use and teach is that with creating a new course to only have the first lesson prepared.
You then get feedback when you deliver that lesson and use it to build the next lesson.
You of course will have a general idea of the overall contents as you start.
This work every time.
Bayo
Hi Bayo - thanks. My issue isn't with course content. More to do with 'free' Blog content and Videos for YouTube etc.
Your audience building course would be an important asset to have. You stressed that it would not simply be a list building course or other similar "intermediate" step. Rather, the course goal gets to the heart of a fundamental building block of online business - having an audience. So, that certainly represents value to me.
I agree with and support your statement that; you will do research to build up the foundational elements that feed into the content of the audience building course. That makes perfect sense and is consistent with the depth that your other courses go into.
It's also reasonable that you don't currently know the higher order levels of abstraction and concepts of the topic. But, what you do know on the subject makes you the most qualified person I know to reach down and pull out more value on the subject - distill that value and present it to us.
The idea of "russian nesting dolls", or the meta-zone (as you've said) or the onion theory - is a common yet under-recognized part of natural systems (and even online business). So, I would enjoy and get benefit from seeing that level of transparency in your work. It would be like visiting your "fortress of solitude" (FYI;a Superman reference).
Finally... people love seeing behind the scenes tech stuff. Me too. As a student of the art form of studio design and construction and occasional builder of A/V studios; I would enjoy seeing what you've done.
Carry on good sir,
-Randal
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, Randal!
Yes, I want this to be fundamental audience building. This is also what's making it very challenging to wrap my head around. There are a million ways to build an audience. Which path do I choose, to distill into a course?
I don't have a clear idea about this yet. I will continue to experiment and discuss and brainstorm and maybe I can document some of this "clarity finding" process as well.
You've built A/V studios? Sounds super interesting! This is the first time I'm really building a studio that isn't just pure improvisation, so I'm totally new to it.
If you want to bounce any ideas off me, just ask. I'd be happy to pass on what I know.
Shane, you write: 'There are a million ways to build an audience. Which path do I choose, to distill into a course?'
I am reminded here of the filter concept that you introduce in Focus & Action. You talk about how a million things compete for your attention, wich you need a filter for. I wonder if this filter concept could be used here too. How to choose a way to build your audience that is aligned with your values.
Great point, Erik!
AND...I immediately thought about the Tour Guide analogy from Course Craft! Same principle... “The devil’s in the details!” also comes to mind!
How to distill (ie, filter) the most efficient & effective strategies in a single course?
I still wonder about the possibility having a “single” strategy when there are so many (apparently) viable audience building tactics out there...
If anyone can do this...Shane’s our guy! (No pressure here Shane! ;p... Our business success is just depending on your new course! LoL!)
I'm excited about your exploration into creating an audience-building course! It's the missing link as I work on my productivity (Focus & Action alum) and create my first course (Course Craft alum). To be successful in any of the creative endeavors I have in mind, I need a motivated audience. I've read about blogging, guest posting, webinar creation, joint ventures, and several random ways to build an audience. What I need now are how-to information and a step-by-step system. That is where you excel, Shane. When you teach, I learn and (most importantly) am able to apply what I learn in a real-life setting. I hope you override your intimidation about developing an impactful audience-building course, as I suspect you're one of a very few people who could do such a course justice.
Thank you very much, Sandi! That's a very encouraging thought. :)
Hello Shane, I'm looking forward to your webinar software tests. Thanks in advance for sharing your insights. I'm luckily part of a high-ticket course and working through it since a few months now, but the course, one of the best on the market, is missing some basic information. So as a CourseCraft course member I learned a lot about course creation and video techniques in detail. That was one missing piece of the other course. Your knowledge and tests with webinar software will also help me a lot if you consider testing webinar software which is capable of handling automated webinars. And the last point I'm looking forward to, is your point of view, your system, and your path to build an audience. I'm a ThriveThemes member and follow your blog for a long time, so I'm sure I will get some new valuable insight out of the work you put into your research/new course.
Thank you for your comment, Simon!
I will be looking at automated webinar features as well, yes. Not all the platforms I'm testing have such features, but for the ones that do, I want to test and compare them in detail.
@Simon Wiedemann,
"I’m luckily part of a high-ticket course and working through it since a few months now," - would you share which course this is? I am always wondering whether these high priced courses (USD 1,997,00 etc) like e.g. Amy Porterfield or Pat Flynn etc. do really provide the value they cost?
Working out the 'viable' of a minimum viable audience is a current focus of mine, so looking forward to dialing into this.
Good to know, AJ!
Shane, I want to let you know that you're probably the most transparent and authentic Entrepreneur in your category that I know of.
I work with highly introverted Knowledge Experts and entrepreneurs and what you've mentioned resonates.
I could go ahead and create "just another program" or create one that's meeting clearly defined needs.
It's knowing and accepting when the path forward is unclear that's what's jumped out from your message.
Cheers!
Thank you for your encouragement, Bayo!
Hi Shane, I would love to follow your "build an audience from scratch" topic since this is my main goal for myself and my business - this is spot on and just what I need. I am also very interested in learning how you will build your studio since this also is a goal for my business. I also love your communitaction style and personality.
Thank you! Glad to know that the studio build will be interesting for you as well. Still going too slow for my taste... but we'll get it done.
Hi Shane
I love your approach to product creation. It shows you actually want to bring value to the market and change lives.
I’m currently building a course using what I’ve learned so far in Course Craft. Because of work commitments I’m moving really slowly but I’m loving every minute because I’m finally building something I can be proud of. As long as you keep bringing this level of quality training to the market you’re gonna be stuck with me for a while
Using webinars to build an audience has been an ambition of mine for years so I’m just waiting for you to announce this new training so I can go buy it (no pressure).
I’m hoping you review EasyWebinar because I already have an account and would love to know how you incorporate it into your workflow.
Thanks as always!
Ricky
Thank you for your comment, Ricky! Makes me happy to read that you are getting good value out of Course Craft. :)
Easy Webinar wasn't on my list of tools to test yet, but I've added it just now. Gotta think of another webinar topic, I guess. :D
Is Clickmeeting on your list? If not please consider adding it.
Never heard of it before. Or heard of it, and then forgot about it again, more likely. :)
I've added it to the list. I will have to do a comical amount of webinars to get through these tests.
I can't wait because I love all of your content.
:-)
I think a building an audience course would be great, but what would really be fantastic is after you test various webinar platforms, you then create your own and incorporate that into Thrive Themes, much the same way as Thrive Leads. If your track record is any indication it would blow the other webinar platforms out of the water.
Thank you for your feedback, Tony!
I don't plan to build a competing platform for webinars. We're trying to limit the focus at Thrive Themes, since we've made the mistake of spreading ourselves too thin, in the past.
I like your idea of a course for building an audience, but I don't think you can escape SEO and link building to get organic traffic. I am not saying people have to hire out folks to write their blog posts and acquire links (you can do that yourself), but in order to build an audience, you need traffic, so it will be interesting to see how you cover that. We all have sites that start out with 0 traffic.
Challenge accepted. :D
You can definitely do without SEO, although you can't escape some form of optimization. It doesn't have to be site optimization and it doesn't have to be for Google, but to systematically build an audience will require some form of analysis and optimization. I'm not sure yet which approach is "the best" one to teach, for building an audience from scratch.
Am curious how you define “optimization” in this context! Is it related to analytics? I know you don’t have any definitive specifics...yet! ;-)
But would still be interested in your “early” definition... :-)
By optimization I mean the process of analyzing content, results and competition and optimizing your own content accordingly. This can be SEO (keyword research, analytics, etc.), it can be on social media (where you optimize for shareability/virality), on YouTube (optimize for engagement), on Amazon (optimize for Amazon search) etc.
Arguably all traffic generation relies on some form of optimization like this.
Thanks for clarifying this, Shane!
I’d *really* need a “system” for implementing any kind of optimization then! :-o
I understand the basics of “analytics” in general, but beyond that...and strategies?...
I’d be lost to know where to start! :-/
Great video Shane... Thanks! (And yes, it's an exciting course topic) ;-)
Thank you, Uffe!
Hi Shane, I really appreciate your honesty and integrity. Building a quality audience is something every entrepreneur needs for sure. I am a Thrive member and have purchased most of your courses. I look forward to your new audience course. Personal request; I love your teaching style, a step by step course on how to create an income online I believe would be greatly appreciated by many. Keep creating awesome content. Thank you!
Thank you for your comment, Jeff!
I would be interested in how to make the audience I have more engaged. Alternatively how to find the people who are potential engaged members from the platform I have (I have a rather large youtube channel). Thanks Shane, i think that's a great idea for a course
That's an interesting challenge! Is it about "waking up" your existing audience or is it a matter of attracting the right crowd to begin with? I honestly don't know, but I'll try to find out.
You are talking to me Shane, I am a creator and I want to help other creators in building an audience. I really do think it is the cultural creatives that will help the planet steer itself towards health. I trust you and would appreciate "done for you" set of tools or a system.
Thanks for your input, Michael!
Hi Shane, nice to hear from you again. It's nice that you want to focus on creators because they have the dual load of both creating AND building their products and audiences. If anyone can teach people how to do it, it's you.
Indeed. Ideally, we can meld the two together and spend lots of time creating and teaching, as a means of audience building.
Absolutely Shane! It's an awesome thought & plan you have! I will be perhaps the first to purchase your course as soon as it sees the light of the day. Do it for God's sake :)
Haha, thank you!
Hi Shane, Danke für Deine Offenheit - sehr sympathisch und auch motivierend, da ich gerade am selben Ort stehe mit 'keine Ahnung ob ich mein Ziel umsetzen kann'. Mein nächster Schritt ist 'building an audience from scratch', Zielgruppe und Nutzen ist klar und definiert, Webseite in Entstehung (mit Thrive Architect natürlich). Ich mag Deine ehrliche, direkte Art von Videos sehr und Deine Ideen und Tipps anregend und umsetzbar. Auch bist Du auf den Punkt und machst nicht noch 2 Minuten Intro-Blabla, das ist super. Ich bin also 'all in' für Deinen Kurs. Go for it! Liebe Grüsse aus Zürich, Sandra
Vielen Dank, Sandra! Das ist ermutigend. :)
This is GREAT!
:-)
The way I see it, building an audience is building relationships.
It's about quality and not quantity.
It's about connections, genuine connections.
And I like it like that.
Thank you Shane for bringing this up. I totally agree with you and have confidence that as in the past, you will create a great valuable resource for us.
Thank you for your feedback, Lian!
Confession
I didn't watch the video to the end but got the gist. I love your humility it weakens me to work harder and remain very humane. Thanks for portraying this well.
My thought Shane on the feedback requested...
If this is more for course creators, I am trying to understand how applicable and practical for offline customer acquisition this would be?
I am in the cosmetics business niche building my business around helping cosmetics business owners and beginners grow their businesses more effectively.
But if I understand you if you create a course or concepts that help creators... how does the course help a creator that has its niche focused on helping his target niche audience gain more clients offline as well?
I sincerely hope I didn't muddle this?
Thank you for your comment, Michael!
I don't have much experience with building an audience offline. The one thing I've done, that carries over from online to offline is presenting and teaching. Online webinars, videos and courses can be a great tool for audience building and I've seen the same work offline with workshops and talks.
Sure, I would love to hear more about building a small, but highly engaged audience.
Thanks for your comment, Shama!
Hi Shane,
in your email you wrote:
>> I'm curious to know if you appreciate this kind of content and would like to see more.
"Surely you are joking, Mr. Feynman" äh... Mr. Melaugh (to use a famous quote here)! Sure I appreciate it, who would not?
1) Great stuff: testing webinars! BTW: The "Grey matters" Youtube channel (you quoted him lately) last year did also a test about different webinar packages, maybe you want to check it out.
2) And especially great stuff: Audience building as a new topic! Great!
Looking forward to hear more about it.
paxpa
Hello Paxpa,
Thanks for your feedback!
I don't take it for granted that people would want to spend their precious time and much contested for attention on a video like the one I posted here. After all, this is not the distilled, hard hitting, practical hot tip on how to get [massive benefit of some kind]. :)
When we get to where we feel stuck and uncomfortable, that's a tipping point for the magic to begin. Our choices are to go through the obstacle, around the obstacle, or over the obstacle to progress to our goal. This endeavor seems to be one of those intermediate goals that you are taking which leads to your end target? I think that this project will be very useful as I want to not only build a larger audience list but more importantly a more responsive audience list that I can be of value too. Thanks for moving out of your comfort zone for us, know that we are behind you all the way!
Thank you for your comment, John!
Indeed, it's one of those targets. The webinar tools are one goal that leads towards the audience building course, which in turn is a stepping stone towards a longer term goal.
Hi Shane!
I would love to see you develop an “audience-from-zero” system! We all start there, so there’s a definite need!
First question I thought of: “is it possible to build such a system that is universally applicable, and not industry/niche specific?”
I would think audience demographics might influence/ impact successful strategies... :-o
Such a project sounds very challenging! Excited to hear about it! :D
Love these updates, and any “behind-the scenes” looks you will share! [I’ve been following you (both sites) for 2-3 years but don’t recall these updates...] I *always* learn something useful from you!
“More productivity” sounds great! :-) Will it be separate from the course?
BTW, I noticed your “new wall” a few videos back & would love to know what part of the world you are in now! ;-)
Hi Karen,
Good question about the niche specificity. There are many things that are always context dependent. I think my main focus would be on creator/teachers. People who create content and/or teach online. Audience building that works for this group probably carries over to various industries. But you're right that I can't hope to make an audience building course for everyone.
I'm currently back in Romania. It's been on of my bases for a few years. :)
Thanks! I understand your overall scope better...
I’m totally IN for anything on creators & teachers! Can’t wait to hear how this project progresses! :D
Awesome video, look forward to seeing what is on the road ahead. Very much interested in audience development.
Thank you, Rich!
Hi Shane:
I have been teaching guitar online for over 5 years, teaching for over 40 years. . I would absolutely love to have a course about building an engaged audience. I currently have a small email list of about 1,000. I'm also interested in a webinar platform to do live and evergreen events. I'm super excited to see your upcoming post on building an highly engaged audience and what webinar platforms are the best. Thanks for sharing. I'm super excited about your project.
Thank you for your comment, Sam!
Hello Shane,
Thank you for your open video.
In the moment I am having a youtube channel. I always have phases when I am very interested in one topic, then I do some videos about it then I move on to something different.
I did 3 videos about nofap, the audience liked it. But now I think I said almost everything what is my opinion and it is my feeling to move on.
Now I wrote a poem to mother day which I published on my channel. I also did the music with logic pro x-software. People will think: Wtf? ;)
Do you think it is more important to be more consistent to build an engaged audience?
Best regards, Erik
This is a very interesting question!
The way I see it, there are 2 types of brands that can succeed on a platform like YouTube. There's the "topic brand" where someone makes gaming videos or tech reviews or makeup tutorials or whatever. They have a topic and they stick with that topic. The audience is there to learn about makeup or tech or whatever and that's what they come back for.
But there's also the personal brand. A personal brand can be much looser in topics covered. It can be your personal journey which might be meditation this month and crocheting next month. People follow you because they're interested in YOUR journey, not because they're interested in a specific topic.
I think the personal brand is a bit more difficult to pull off and you still have to have some kind of unifying theme in order to not be too confusing. It has to make some kind of sense why you're talking about one thing now and a completely different thing next. But it's definitely possible.
Tim Ferriss famously coined the term "lifestyle design" as something that is a governing topic, but also can include all kinds of things. Gives him the freedom to talk about whatever he's most interested in.
Thank you very much for your detailled and profound answer! :)
I really like the idea! A step-by-step system based on what we show that is needed and summed up with your experience is going to be a real gem.
I've been already listening and taking notes throughout the podcast episodes and book recommendations. It has been really a good transformation of mindset, since I decided to take a more in-depth at the Thrive content and Course Craft gave me a really good boost.
A course focused on course creation is great, because it requires more tools than if it was focused on consultant or coaching services.
Even though, I feel that if we could starting working on services with this kind of mindset preached on keep serving better our smallest viable audience, we could enjoy better when it is time to become a course creator. So, it might encounter a mindset gap that is really important to cover.
That's what I'm working on now, I'm getting to know clients, serve them. But now, I'm already connected with a mindset that will allow me with the tools and knowledge to starting making small workshops/mini-course in order to be prepared to have a course and audience in the near future.
And thanks!
This week, after almost a year without income, I've got my first paid clients. People is telling that I'm giving too much in quality and service, that they are asking for my bank account.
The conversion rate is up-high, even re-engaging people that felt overwhelmed by how I presented the information on the first place.
Just not sure if could walk through the course right away as you launch, but definitely I’m gonna buy it. First things that are on my schedule, focusing on shipping and improving one thing at time
Thank you for your comment, Daniel!
I'm happy to see that you've been implementing the strategies and congratulations on your first paid clients! That's a huge step!
I’m not a big fan of doing Livestreams and Webinars, but I’m interested in the course anyway. Even though I haven’t finished your other ones yet. ;-)
What I hear is that you’re going to teach something like “building a fanbase”. Not just a list.
I really like that.
Or the other way around – I don’t like people talking about their “list”. It’s not about a list. It’s about people I’d like to share a message with.
Yes, that's exactly right. It's about fans, followers, a tribe. I'm not sure what to call it, because I think all of these terms have been overused and abused. But the idea is to not just have a list of email addresses, but a group of people who actually know you and want to hear from you.
Could you call it a club?
Groucho Marx quote is the first thing that comes to mind for me, when I hear that. :D
:D
Hi Shane,
I love this topic, however recently I found that I am better selling one time products than recurrent basis products. I wonder how do I create audiences like that. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and time to provide value to us. All the best always.
For one, you can sell more than one product to the same audience. In fact, I recommend it.
(as you can see, that's what I'm doing as well)
Hi Shane, yes definitely could use this topic about how to build an engaged audience. I think my situation might be a bit off-the-road because as an author of Italy Travel Books, I have to
1. discover new ways to find my audience while they're in the planning stages of going to Italy.
2. Then I have to work hard to serve up really really good content that will be hugely useful to them.
3. Here's the sad part: after they take their trip, they don't need me any more.
Which means I have to keep finding new audience members to keep my pipeline full.
I know this isn't what you or others regularly go through, as your audience tends to stay with you indefinitely. Mine is temporary.
Ergo, I could use any good ideas that you might have.
Thanks for your dedication.
I've been a part of your audience for 3-4 years now.
Patty Civalleri
Ooohh... that's a difficult situation! I've never thought of this before. I think you're getting the worst of both worlds, here. You have to do the hard work of audience building (or acquisition, at least), but you don't get the benefits of an accumulating audience.
Is there a 20% of hardcore Italy travel fans who are return customers, in your audience?
Yes there is. Clever of you to spot this. They are my specific audience because nobody writes for them. Travel books are mostly written for first-timers. I WANT the return visitors that have already done 'tourist' Italy, and want to go deeper.
I can find them in social groups and clubs. So now I need to pull them in with a consistent flow of good content. And this is where I fall off the rails. Ugh!
I think that would be the opportunity to go after. Appeal to that core audience. That much smaller group, who are much more passionate and more likely to be return customers. Ultimately, I believe you'll get more value out of this smaller group.
Hi Shane, thanks for sharing so fairdinkum about your challenges even thou you have a huge flow of success to back your self up, curious when did you really start to getting sparks of a growing community with Thrive or was it before Thrive, I know you had product before but can not remember the brand name now, so really curious did momentum and tribe building more come in to play with Thrive or the early products you had? Oh if you get a chance please test out Webinar Ninja if you have not already love to hear your feedback around that webinar tool, I quite like it for myself and really like the team behind it they are entrepreneurial driven too.
Thanks for your comment, Brian!
Webinar Ninja is on the list. :)
My audience building started long before Thrive Themes. In fact, the reason Thrive Themes was off to such a successful start is because I already had an engaged audience.
The first kind of success I had with this was ages ago, before I because active in the marketing/business niche. I built an audience and a name for myself in a micro niche and tried to turn that into a business. But it more or less failed because I had no idea what I was doing on the business side.
Very interesting, comes right in time!
I work with people with type 2 diabetes since 25 years, offline, as a doctor and Iwant so much to share online to much more people my knowledge, my experience and my very specific way to communicate in a friendly, sometimes fun, easy to understand way (with a big portion of „Wiener Schmäh“).
Content creation is no problem at all, I love writing and have a huge HP and >100 postings. People keep telling me that they like it, because I don‘t make them afraid: „Now I understand for the first time!“ – „ This is really motivating“ ...
BUT my email list does not grow very much, facebook does not help (AND I don’t like it), the little traffic I have is 80% generic and I am terrible at selling stuff.
I already have a course online, but nobody buys ist – when I did sort of a mini launch, 8 people bought and they really liked it! So I really need to stop writing more and more stuff and instead work consequently on building an audience. Hm. This online thing HAS TO bring some money this year!
So I look forward to any input!
That's an interesting situation. Seems like you're making many of the right moves, but something's missing on the acquisition side.
Have you experimented with SEO or YouTube SEO?
HP: Yoast SEO gives me greens most of the time.
Youtube: not yet... I record my first videos. There are no good youtube videos on my topic, so I hurry up to get them online.
That could be a really valuable opportunity then! I recommend that you take a look at Brian Dean's videos on how to optimize YouTube videos.
I will. And in my next newsletter I will not only explain things and send links to follow, but try to ask an open question and interact with my People a little bit like you do it here. It‘s awesome what happens here!
Thank you!
yes please, I am sure it will be just as much "Swiss quality and integrity" as the other two awesome courses I am going through (Focus & Action and Course Craft).
I also love to hear that you strive to create a course about audience building and not 'just list building' I think in the long run with GDPR and other laws (like Denmark where - I heard - you can't use the word FREE anymore if you ask for an email address) it will be important to know how to build an audience and not just a list.
I look forward to this course, I need it, so hurry up and create it LOL, I hope you'll need some beta testers...
Thank you, Conny!
Building an email list is still important, but I think there are better ways to do it than our current "default" strategies. The goal is to find the right people and have them really want to follow you. If that's the case, then it doesn't matter whether there's "free" in the opt-in copy or a checkbox or whatever.
exactly, looking forward to the course and your insights on this topic
Hi Shane,
First of all: Thank you so much for the value you provide to all of us. I am not sure if you are fully aware of how much we all (I am sure) profit from first your knowledge and second from the way you share this knowledge.
I love your approach of setting quality before quantity. There are so many courses out there on "How to get 1000 leads in one week". So I would be highly interested. I am right now in the phase where I try to build an audience of lawyers in Switzerland (website: http://www.digital-attorney.com). It turns out to be not so easy, so this will be an ideal field of experimentation for me … :-)
I am also looking forward for your "over the shoulder" video of your studio construction site.
Thanks again for constantly adding value to our lives!
Thank you very much, Christoph!
You know, I always have doubts about the value I provide. I guess it's a typical creative problem as well. Your current work never seems good enough. I'm always striving to do better.
Thanks, Shane. Very exciting and something I would be VERY interested in. I purchased "Course Craft" with putting a course together this summer when school is out. This would be a perfect follow up. It is refreshing to hear your reticense (worry, angst, panic?) over tackling something new. That is exactly what I am feeling now!
Thank you for your comment, Bob!
It's intimidating to be in the part of the creative process where everything's still chaotic. But it's a necessary part of the process, I think.
Thanks for sharing Shane,
I know that you will be able to accomplish this particular goal. You're helping me and so many others to move forward in this business. Your honesty and humility is a much needed asset in this space.
Keep Pushing!!
Derek
Thank you for your comment, Derek!
Hi Shane, I look forward to following your project on audience building, it's a great topic.
Thank you, Annika!
I will buy it, Shane. Good topic.
Thank you, Kai!
Hi Shane!
Oh, I would love to have engaged audience that I have connection with. Lately I was talking with my friend and she thinks webinars are the best way now. So I am thinking about webinars, but it gets me to the edge of my comfort zone. Webinars. But also how to get audience for webinars? Through Facebook adds?
I also hear a lot about Instagram lately. This is another kind of challenge in thinking and approach. Would I be talking every day about some silly things to stay connected to people? Are my people on Instagram? But there is something challenging and appealing at the same time, as the way is going this direction.
So I will wait and listen to your testing and behind the scenes.
Hi Joanna,
Webinars are powerful indeed. But you're right: they require an audience or a traffic source. This can come in many ways and I can't say that there's one "best way" yet. That's one of the things I'm searching for.
Hi, Shane.
Thank you so much for sharing with us your feeling of intimidation and how do you interpret it as an indicator of being on the right track. I really appreciate it because I am in a similar situation and listening to those words from someone like you really push me up.
BTW, I’m one the ones that remember Sunday Updates -- and the Warrior Forum :)
I am a creator, a passionate software developer, with some teaching experience offline in academic environments, and I would like to start teaching online. My idea is about not only selling courses but also creating a community online. The problem I have zero audiences and I a lack of clarity about how to build it in an efficient way.
I would love to learn form you how to build an audience. I really hope you make that course.
Kind Regards.
Sonia
Yay, someone got the Sunday Update reference! :)
It sounds like you're exactly the kind of person I want to make this course for. Creator/teachers. I very much want to develop a reliable system that you can follow to build up an audience.
Hey Shane, nice share mate. Your comment on quality vs quality audiences resonates. To create the 'perfect course' is much easier when you know your audience well and when people are engaged and giving feedback.
Thank you, Paddy!
Let me recap this (as I understood it): First, Shane showed us how to be more productive (and hell, I consider myself already a pretty productive person but learned a lot!).
After this he showed us how what to do with this spare time and create scalable product that is not a trade time for money (and its limitations), aka an online course.
And now you plan on how to show us, how to get these really true fans (they say 1,000 is the magic number *haha*) like I am one of Thrive's true fans?
Hell yeah, I am in!
... and I am really curious how webinars weave into this. On the one hand they scare me a little bit but on the other hand, if it scares me, I am for sure not the only person that is scared. For each 1 person that sticks to it and leaves his / her comfort zone (me, hopefully), there are 10 competitors who didn't dare.
ps: oh wait, and of course there are all the ever growing amazing software products you have, that make using all the new knowledge so easy. Have I mentioned, that I am a fan of Thrive and Shane (and all the other good Thrive people like Hanne and Matt and .... :) )
Thanks for your encouraging comment!
Webinars and live events are a powerful tool for audience building and for creating that real connection with an audience. A live event breaks down some of the barriers usually present in online content. It's not 100% polished or edited. It's less of a groomed image. That makes the connection more real.
I would like to see a sort of Livestream without having to show one's face. Alternatively, training on presentation of a Livestream. That's for all the introverts out there.
Thanks for your comment!
You could do live events without showing your face, if you show a presentation instead. That would be more difficult to make truly engaging, but it's not impossible.
Hi Shane - this sounds like exactly what I need. I am starting from scratch, with no website built yet, nothing published at all yet. (Learning the 80/20 principle).
I've purchased Thrive Subscription, picked a WP theme, made a list of plugins, purchased hosting, shopping for podcast hosting, putting together initial content etc. etc. And so am trying to get everything together for a podcast and associated content. Very overwhelming. I'm definitely looking to have an engaged audience, even if small, so I'll be very happy to hear what you have to say.
Thanks for your feedback, Paul!
Shane,
I need your course.
Now, to give a live webminar or such, don´t you need an audience to invite first?... the chicken or the egg?...
Would you consider video marketing / Youtube as part of audience building? That is a good audience building strategy. Just because people don´t like to read much and we´re getting used to videos (now when I google something I find myself prioritizing videos. I would go for written pages only if the source is more important or if I think scanning that page will take me less time than watching a video)
Also you need to learn how to profile your prospect (for Ideal reader profile /ideal customer, etc) ... and when you don´t have an audience, how do you do that? (the first stone in the zero audience trail).
Regarding webminars and live events, I see big names (Marie Forleo, Amy Porterfield) using Facebook Live. And Facebook groups for engagement. Why do they do that instead of the other tools like gotowebminar?... I don´t know.
I´ve lately heard Seth Godin say in Amy Porterfield´s podcast that a really engaged group should not have more than 7 people. And Amy was heads over heels asking how to do it, but didn´t get her answer (unfortunately for her and for me, apparently we should buy Seth´s course on marketing to get that answer).
Speaking of Podcasts, would you add ¨getting invited to podcasts¨ for list building? It seems getting invited to podcasts gets you lots of followers. And podcasts creators (middle level) are really open to make you a guest if you ask in the right way.
I´ve heard that to have a virtual assistant to assist you in a webminar makes the experience easier for the speaker. Since the VA would read the questions, sort them through and send them to the speaker without him/her getting distracted. Also they answer the questions to the attendees. And of course promotes what is to sell by the end of the webminar, in this case it would be being part of the list.
Another thought: List building is not only tied to the online world. It could also be important for offline business to grow sales. Offline business owners just need one email a week to an audience to move the needle in their sales that otherwise would´n move. Would webminars or the other ways you´re evaluating work for offline businesses?
And just a request, please do not start with ubbersuggest, hrefs and that nerdy stuff. Remember we´re human beings :)
Review: Crowdcast.io has a very distracting chat. Too big. I got too distracted reading different people´s comments and writing back at them. A couple of times I heard your voice and paid attention suddenly, straightening my spine, so you wouldn´t notice and send me to the principal office (It was Paxpa distracting me miss). But, on the other hand, peer interaction helps bonding among your tribe and makes it a more interesting group to be part of. And lessens your demand for content. The peers create content when chatting and sharing. I guess...
Topic for next webminars: How to use slack in the most efficient way for a small team. // How to build your home studio (instead of the video, do it in a webminar and we can ask questions). // How to set up an automated webminar -- kind of a meta thing ¨this is how I do this thing that I´m doing¨. //
As for the name... ¨paying friends´group building¨, ¨sitegoers addicts¨, ¨my devotees lineup¨... hard question Shane ;)
Sorry it got too long. Please don´t ask open questions again! I have a ¨responsive mind¨ (curious enough, it doesn´t resize).
Marisa
Thanks for your input, Marisa!
YouTube is definitely a potential traffic source, yes. And video as a medium is powerful for audience building, because it's more personal. It's just much easier to remember someone when you've seen their face and heard their voice, rather than only read text on a page.
I will create a post that explains the differences between livestreams and webinars (as I see them, anyway).
@Marisa,
"(It was Paxpa distracting me miss)"
What can I say… <<-- I hope the thinking face smiley will show up and not be eaten by the comments Software
paxpa
So much to share ...
First of all, definitely looking forward to it. The focus on "engaged audience" versus "just a big blob of folks" is a welcome addition to the field. It's a how-to on getting to the "1,000 people who would follow you anywhere."
Second -- the less-productive, not-sure phase is a necessary part of the process if you're doing something creative. I've found that that period is when my subconscious is making connections, building a structure, and so on. Do the research, go away from it for a period, then do some mind-mapping and outlining, and you'll know when it's clicking.
Third, on knowing -- I find that when I'm creating, it is like following a vein in a gold mine. If I get off of it, eventually everything peters out. I have to go back to where it was in the vein (even deleting entire paragraphs), and go again from that point.
And finally -- this may seem off-topic, but stay with me. I heard a youth minister at a workshop talk about building a youth program at a church, and he referenced the numbers we know from Jesus's ministry:
– 5,000 fed
– 120 disciples sent out
– 12 apostles
– 3 inner circle
His point was that you need the pyramid. You cannot just focus on the big group at the bottom, because they come and go. And you can't focus on just the highly engaged group at the top, because they are drawn from the groups below them.
I think it's the same for building an engaged audience. You will always have the big group, the ones on the periphery. Then you'll have the more engaged, and the most engaged. I think the goal is to figure out how to both keep expanding the outer circle AND draw people into the inner circles.
My $0.02. Hope it's helpful.
And your video update gave me an idea for doing my own, with my engaged folks. :-)
Thanks for your comment, Bruce!
Really good thoughts on the creative process. I like your gold vein analogy!
This whole video is like a breath of fresh air. For a while, people were super into the whole 1000 true followers thing. Not a perfect model, but helpful nonetheless. But I think as social grew and people began obsessing over optimization, we forgot that we're actually building communities, not just followers.
Thank you, Andreas!
The 1,000 true fans model was and still is genius. I was just thinking about this yesterday: on social platforms and on YouTube, there are many examples of creators with seemingly large audiences, but they're still struggling. For example, on YouTube with copyright issues and demonetization. You can have an audience of 100K+ and still struggle to get paid.
That's like the polar opposite of 1,000 true fans. You have masses of followers with a shallow connection to you, there's no real exchange of value and the solution most people look to is to amass even more followers.
There's a better way. And that's what I want to teach.
Plus, I think 1000 is the largest you can get and still have the community feel engaged with each other, like a real network. Larger than that and it seems like the creator can still engage with individuals, but the seems to lose a bit of the camaraderie.
Maybe this is more of an issue with something like Facebook groups where people are presumed speaking to the entire group and members start to lurk more. On Youtube, it seems like more of a fun "peanut gallery" type of involvement, which is maybe easier to engage in.
Also, you're in Romania now? I love it there! I lived in Transylvania years ago and hope to make it back.
Yes, I think that's another issue with audience building. That "small group" feeling doesn't scale.
Awesome Shane.
I'm constantly in awe of your insight and your support for what we do is very much appreciated.
As for webinars - I'm very disillusioned with GTW, both as a presenter and as attendee. It's being used to spam with no way to block single spammers (I, and probably many others, am very close to blocking all GTW emails - which will disadvantage all presenters, including the legit players), sends things that don't work (like Accept Mettings), and is hidiously expensive. Just my 2c.
WebinarJam/Everwebinar is great with all bells and whistles, although requires a fairly modest monthly payment to stream quality. Zoom seems to be a great option. And there are a few more too...
I'm sure you're going to have a lot of fun exploring options.
Thanks for your input, Kerry!
I agree that GTW hasn't aged well, compared to the competition. That's one of the reasons I'm doing this review. I've been a GTW user for many years, but I'm looking to switch to something better now.
Thanks Shane for the insiders look at not just what you do, but how. Can't wait to see how you've built your studio.
I'm looking forward to the new course. I'm sure you will persevere through your intimidation and get it launched. We're counting on you.
You said there were topics you are not currently an expert about. I'm sure that even now you know much more than most of us and by the time you finish your research it will be an even greater gap.
My thought is as long as you cover the fundamentals with as much thoroughness as I've seen in Active Growth, Focus and Action, and Course craft; anything you provide in terms of what you learn along the way will be quite valuable and we'll received.
I have heard you say, I think in course craft, that when there are several ways to do things it's best to pick one and teach just that method. This might be a case where simply giving the pros and cons of each method may be beneficial as everyone will have their own needs and preferences.
I also would like to add regarding the course of building an engaged audience that I hope you won't overlook the benefits of building that audience via online meetings, i.e. meetups,. I have had pretty good success with that.. My challenge has been how to keep the audience engaged. To not let it go cold.
Thanks for who you are and all you do for us. I, for one, am getting great value from all of it.
Thank you for your input, Bob!
I haven't used online meetups for audience building. I have done it with offline workshops though and I've found that very valuable.
There are indeed almost too many possibilities for building an audience. My challenge is to provide a clear path and an actionable set of instructions. To carve a path through the countless possibilities, basically.
I realize now that I mistyped before. I meant to say OFFLINE meetings.
Yep! I have my own experience with Meetups locally (LA area) and it actually became — in retrospect — the “birth” of my flagship course (although I had no idea at the time! ;-) LoL!)
My only problem was one of FREE vs. paid! How to draw the line... I’ve suspected it’s related to marketing focus — how to position the content — since I see many marketing Meetups charging $99USD/meeting! [gasp!]
But Meetups in my niche / demographic are ALL free! That’s a huge obstacle to overcome...
Would love how to position the free to lead to the PAID online courses... I’m sure there is a way to give lots of FREE value, yet use the Meetups to generate a loyal following and leads for the PAID courses...
Hi Shane, I am a Thrive member and a member of Course Craft. I would be very interested in the new course you have outlined here. I hope the price-point would be similar to Course Craft as funds are so tight. I think you are on the right track! I am a creator and would love something geared specifically to us!
Thanks for your feedback, Chuck!
Hi Shane,
Yes please, by all means we appreciate all of your work and have learned so much from you.
Thank you, Kathleen! I'm happy to heard that.
I am wondering if you could test your system out in a niche you don’t already have a giant following in?
One of your hobbies for example?
It doesn’t help beginners if you start from momentum.
Yes, I definitely want to prove the system like that. I'm looking for ways to work with people as case studies.
This is a great idea. :) So, are you looking for a start up, basically?
Something like that. I'm looking for the right kind of people, primarily. I'm looking for people who are starting an online business or are in the early stages and who are excellent at execution. The ideal case study subject is someone who implements everything I suggest with great work ethic.
It would seem our audience interest align...
Im launching The Non Exercisers Guide TV where Im tecahing advancing levelsof muscle memeory, modern and meaningful self test tools, Exergenic Nutriton, The Calorie Code and Fitness Life Skills Workshops courses classes and clinics.
webinars and live streams will be an essential..component.
Im still learning story telling through video ...lots going in hope I can keep up..
I assure you I will open emails and engage
Nice! I will try to get the webinar testing done soon, so you can make use of what I learn. :)
Awesome Shane.
There's SO many platforms available out to build your audience.
It would be great to talk about which platforms work best for different business types eg service- based business like coaching for example.
Cheers Jo
Thanks for your input, Jo!
That sounds like a great course, can't wait to see you make it happen. I already have a strong social media following, but I would love to hear how to build an engaged community outside of social media platforms. There is only one request: don't forget about 'Course craft', I signed up like months ago, and I am eagerly waiting to get started ;-)
Thanks for your comment, Katja.
There's some more Course Craft bonus content coming, but the course is all there. You should not wait to get started. :)
What am I missing? Whenever I try to enter the course, it leads me to a sign-up-for-the-waiting-list page and I signed up more than once : (
Try accessing it from Thrive University: https://thrivethemes.com/university/
If that doesn't work, please get in touch with our support team. They will help you out.
Hi Sean,
Your project 'build an audience from scratch" topic!' is just what I need at the moment. I am creating a video-based online course that Teaches communication skills that enable people to ‘Live An Enriched Life Through their Relationships’
The only way to richer relationships is through effective mindful communication.
The course transforms the way people listen enabling them to Live An Enriched Life Through their Relationships.
We have the 1st module ready to go and will be launching the product later this week. The course needs people to be committed and engage so I am looking to establish such an audience.
I have created the course using Thrive Apprentice.
That sounds like an interesting topic! I'm hoping to do a communication course or workshop later this year as well. But more focused on educational communication.
At any rate, it sounds like you have an offer that is exactly right for a small but engaged audience.
Hello Shane,
As someone who is just starting out creating an online blog/business, building an audience is paramount if I'm to be successful.
At this early stage of writing content, I'm riddled with doubt. I feel like I'm just regurgitating content that's already available elsewhere on the Internet. Moreover, because I've just started, I've no gauge or analytics to tell me if what I'm writing will be of interest to people. I'm writing just to rank on Google which is boring but kind of essential to attract an audience.
If you are able to teach me how to create content that generates interest because it's great content, rather than just creating content that ranks on Google. Now that would be something! :)
That would indeed be something. And I think it's necessary for the kind of audience growth I'm looking for.
It's fine to have "just for SEO" content to attract some traffic, but you also need to have a backbone of "for people" content on your site. More personal, more opinionated, different from what they might find in typical search results. This is what will get people to stick around.
By all means, do some SEO, but don't exchange your soul for Google traffic.
Go! Go! Go! Shane!
Thank you also for sharing your human side in this video.
I am happy to know that there will be other webinars as experimentation, they are always valuable moments of exchange.
I'm very interested in the topic, and that's what I've been trying to do since I started my business. It's also why I ended up following your videos and your advice, often against the mainstream, but more grounded and in line with my reality.
I am sure you will be able to overcome this challenge in an excellent way.
Congratulations also for the new studio!
Thank you, Agostino! I'm glad to hear that my style resonates with you. It's indeed different from the mainstream and I'm grateful that I've found an audience of people who are on board with my less noisy/excited approach. :)
Shane, this is awesome and exactly what I need.
I built a 'list', my open rates dropped as my list numbers rose and in the end my emails started going to spam (only for gmail, finally getting that sorted out).
But the huge frustration has been... why do people sign up to my list and then not open my emails? Or click on the links?
How do I make sure that my optin/webinar is attracting the right people? What metrics should I track and how quickly should I change tack? How do I know in what way I need to change tack? How do I do all that quickly enough to make progress in less than 10 years ;) without scrambling around trying random things?
I really want to have a conversation with my audience, provide them with truly useful content and offer courses that they really want. I never want to feel like I'm trying to cajole or convince people.
And I'm so tired of feeling like I'm talking to a brick wall.
Looking forward to what you have to tell us on audience building!
Thank you for sharing your experience, Nicola!
First, open and click rates going down as your list grows is completely normal. And unavoidable, really. It's an interesting question about why people sign up and then ignore you.
It depends to some degree on what they signed up for. For example, if you have an opt-in bribe that is "too attractive", it can lead to many signups who end up disengaged.
But there's also an aspect of just human nature at play. We all do this kind of thing. We buy books we don't end up reading, clothes we don't end up wearing, gym memberships we don't end up using... we often purchase things or sign up for things in an aspirational way, in the moment.
Thanks for those insights Shane... good points and I'll think about my optins in that light :)
Thank you for your honest and inspirational video. Sounds you are in a position many of us are in often: looking for direction and forward motion. With this type of video you don't just tell, you show and explain your ideas and motivation, which is very inspiring. Thanks again for this!
Thank you, Patrick. Yes, that's what it feels like. There are too many questions and no clear path forward yet. But the discussion I'm having here with everyone is a huge help and I'm grateful for it.
Hi Shane.
I agree with you: creating a real audience is not creating a list of contact. You can obtain that simply focusing on a real good lead magnet. But now, in 2019, here in Italy, where you can find a "web site maker" for only a handful of euro, everything seems seriously compromised.
People don't trust anyone, anymore. Too much guru, and too much para-guru. So people now call you (as a professional) only to tell "I know by myself what I have to do, do it and stop babbling". I have to stay away from those people.
We certainly need to create different kind of audience. Small one maybe, we need to rise trust with contents (Yes, I also think webinars are one of the best type of approach).
I hope that you will do it, and I'm sure you can do it better than anyone else.
Thanks
Giovanni
Ah, the joys of working with clients...
I think you're right. We've been inundated with too much of the same guru-y, market-y stuff. It's time for a new approach.
Who doesn't want to improve at building an engaged audience? Count me in. I've been blogging for over 12 years, and it used to be a lot easier to drive traffic AND engage my audience but I've been waging a losing battle the past few years, so I'm always open to new ideas on this topic, for sure.
Thank you for your comment, Jacob! I hope I'll be able to offer you something of value.
I did a series of (recorded) webinars. Had not so a good experience doing them. Due to the lack of much subscribers and engagement.
Even less confident than before in doing them.
It would be great to have a course on how you can really build that mutual relationship and build intimacy and engagement.
Sorry to hear you had a not so great experience. But no worries. I've done webinars to near empty rooms as well. It's all part of the process. :)
Shane, I am very thankful you're taking this approach and welcome it. Why? Because many of us are sitting with or sitting on an idea and we're paralysed by fear of imperfection or the imposter syndrome and listening too much to the voices in our head, rather than taking little steps every day towards our goals.
My wife and I are right at the beginning of a journey together to bring a concept to life online - a membership offering to help the over 40s take care of their backs, so they can return to living the active lives they enjoy(ed) so much.
We have a 'list' of people who know us through our physical Pilates studio, but we have put out zero content online in the past 12 months or so and so, we're starting from almost nothing - so building that highly responsive and engaged audience really is in the crosshairs of what we need to do right now.
Interestingly, I recently invested in an LTD for BigMarker - allegedly a rather good webinar platform. Is BM on your radar for this trial/test run? Seems it's an established (8 years+) tool offering enterprise-grade webinar capabilities and as someone who does LOTS of diligence before choosing tools, I was mighty impressed.
Thank you for your comment, Ryan!
I hope I'll be able to help you along your journey.
I'd never heard of BigMarker before. I'll take a look and see what they have on offer.
Hello Shane
I really appreciate your authentic and open nature.
I'm interested in the necessary foundation and the necessary preliminary work so that I can build up a committed audience at all. I am interested in many personal topics and questions, know many things and would like to be able to open up and pass on new things to me in the future.
If I want to build up a new business or expand an existing business, the following questions arise for me:
-Which topics or problems are suitable? How do I research and evaluate them? When is enough? Potential assessment.
- How much knowledge and experience do I need to build up and contribute? There are usually providers who can offer even more knowledge and experience, but there are also others. I want to offer real added value and thereby build credibility and trust so that the business idea is positioned for the long term.
- How do I find and engage the right target group?
- How do I form long-term relationships with satisfied and happy customers from initial contacts?
Great questions!
Let me start you off with the advice I usually give to someone in your situation: many of these questions don't need to be answered before you start. In fact, if you just get started, the answers will reveal themselves or the questions will become irrelevant.
What do I mean by "just get started"? Find the most immediate ways to do the things you want to be doing. The activity is what matters most. Getting in the practice. If you want to be a coach, start coaching people. Find any and all opportunities to do so and see what arises from that.
To give you an example: I recently decided that I want to get better at making videos. In the last few months, I have recorded recipe videos, martial arts videos, videos for 3 different online courses with different people, a fashion shoot etc.
I've simply thrown myself at every opportunity to go film something new, under new circumstances. I've done this with and for friends and acquaintances. I've offered my services to anyone who would have me.
This approach teaches me more than all the time in the world watching tutorials and waiting for the right opportunity.
I will take it to heart! Thanks!
Recipe videos & fashion shoots?! We want to see them all, Shane! ;p
[ jk ;-)...This is a great tactic if one is brave enough to do it! Just one more reason why you are where you are with such a loyal group of true fans! You're not afraid to put yourself out there! Personally, I would be terrified, but I truly admire your continuing tactics to “get out of your comfort zone!” ]
Shane the integrity and honesty of your approach makes me proud to be part of the Thrive Themes family. Thank you for 'leading the way'
Thank you, Geoff!
I am very interested in this course. Some thoughts:
- How would I really connect to audience members without spending tons of time of personal interaction? So how do I give individual attention but draw a line? Or could I do without this personal attention?
- The invasion of private space if people start to really dig you and love you. The fanmail, how tot deal with it.
Granted, the two above bullets are luxury problems.
- In order for people to become fans, I suppose you have to at first over-deliver: create huge benefit for them compared to the price you ask. So this could clash with the principle that you should not undervalue yourself and keep working for pennies. How to solve this dilemma?
Trying to get away without personal interaction seems like a bad idea. You can't have any kind of authentic relationship without investing some time and effort. I think that's true for personal relationships as well as for this kind of more abstract relationship between you and your audience.
Invasion of private space: I don't think that becomes an issue until you reach proper celebrity status. But also, I recommend that you don't put private stuff online. Anything you put online (even if it's not public) is being invaded. Not by individual people, but systematically, by algorithms. It's being invaded and used against you. This is a far greater issue for privacy and personal freedom than getting some fan mail, in my humble opinion.
Your third question is very interesting. You're right, there's a dilemma there between delivering real value and underselling your own value. I'll have to think on this some more.
Hi Shane,
I need something like this. I am almost finished my course and need to get it out there. I am a content creator in that I have created something brand new and a run off product from it will be a first. So I will have 2 products out by the end of the year. Both unique and a brand new way of looking at things. So I need to build my audience now. My website should be finished within the next 2 weeks and hopefully I shall be on the market. I can't give you URL yet as it is hidden as I am still building and loading everything. I wish I had had a few more weeks for the competition as I would have entered.
Thanks for your comment, Nadine! Sounds like you're making good progress!
Hi Shane,
The course you’re planning is on a topic anyone into online business should be interested in, of course. I’m certainly one.
I don’t know your planned angle for the course, but I have my ideas on the issue. In a comment a fair bit up here you say: “Is it about “waking up” your existing audience or is it a matter of attracting the right crowd to begin with?“ I think this is one of the core questions and that the answer is probably “Yes”. :-) So even if we want to achieve both, we still need awareness on what element has which intention and effect. Otherwise we could easily muddle things up and become annoying rather than engaging.
The most engaged type of connection is with our family. Next is our closest friends. Then our collegues. Then perhaps our club. Then other people with our interest. Then people from the same area. It would be interesting to describe the defining differences in interaction within these layers. It would be even more interesting to look at which layer has the type of interaction we would look for with our “followers”.
Identifying this similarity with a social connection we know well might be useful for filtering which actions fit or not. More importantly, we will be more aware of what we have to provide, the level of privateness, the respect, honesty and so on. These ingredients need to be enough, but too much is just as bad. My thought is that we might want to strive for the tone we have with our fellow members of a club.
That's a really interesting way to think about it!
Sounds excellent. One of the ideas used very successfully by online membership sites and their related printed magazines to harness the 'tribe' aspect is to register and set up an association under a .org address. That way the members/subscribers/tribe members can all belong to the same 'club' but describing it as an association gives it more gravitas/status.
Thanks for your comment. The aspect of a tribe and belonging to a group is definitely something that makes a big difference. And it's a big advantage for smaller businesses and groups, because they feel more real and personal.
Shane, I would also love to hear you expand on your opinion about the “in-advisability” of the membership model for content creators... You mentioned this in Course Craft.
Is this preference just in comparison to the online course model or generally applicable?
It seems like a really popular model right now, so I hope you’ll address the viability of this model in your new project!
Thanks! :-)
Hello Shane
Yet another great video. Building a fan base is a real need as is developing online courses. Unfortunately I missed your course covering building online courses because I had an unplanned move from London to Scotland. My mother dementia has reached a point where she can no longer live on her own. This factor makes it challenging to do and implement course work nevertheless I'm as always eager to learn and implement.
Thanks for your comment, Christopher. Sorry to hear about your mother's condition. I hope you will find a way to balance the priorities in your life.
Thank you
Hey Shane,
I'm definitely part of your target audience for this course right now. I'm launching a weekly podcast next month (three episodes already produced, twenty outlines in the bank) but it feels incredibly hard to pull off. A system (like your productivity one) would be extremely helpful to me.
I've bought Course Craft by the way but I feel I need to build at least a "minimum viable audience" (as Seth Godin calls it) first before diving into the course world.
Constant content creation feels very exhausting but also worthwhile. My biggest wish for this course: Please help me make it feel as effortless as possible. I really want to enjoy this and not dread it.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We definitely shouldn't dread our work. But I also think that creative work is never just a walk in the park, either. Effortless is probably the wrong word to use.
It can sometimes be effortless, but I think successful creatives tend to be disciplined people. You have to show up a lot to experience some of those effortless moments.
Okay thanks a lot, that helps. I'm in the middle of a 30-day challenge of podcast content creation, so it's no surprise it feels hard. I guess after that a weekly rhythm with dedicated content deep work slots will feel at least a bit easier.
Hi Shane, for me having a really engaged audience is one of the most crucial parts of my business. I want to build a membership site where the members not only consume content but share and help each other. To do this I believe they need to feel being part of a community. Thank you at this point for keeping us in the loop on your plans- looking forward to see what’s up next!
Thank you for your comment, Beatrix!
Hey Shane, That's a wonderful idea and I would certainly buy that course.
I recently saw the "three blog post"-article. And it is exactly those kind of innovative ideas I am interested in. Ideas that make so much sense, that I slap my head and wonder why I never thought of it. So if you have more of that in your course, I would be very happy indeed.
I would have a big request though:
It seems to me that a lot of your advice is leaning heavily toward the B2B segment. I would really like to see a better coverage of the oddities of the B2C segment.
Also in the niche market I am in certain strategies just don't work. I am the only person not just in Germany, but world wide who has a parrot podcast for example. So - no way I will get invited onto someone else's podcast.
I address this by inviting people with a largish following onto my podcast so I can access their tribe. Unfortunately many of those are not marketing oriented. Their affiliate efforts are also sob-worthy.
I am also the only person AFAIK who is doing professional online-courses, online-coaching, etc. in this segment. I compete against live courses. So it seems that I don't just offer a product, I am also educating people that technology is not scary and that online courses are better than live courses in some hotel.
These are just some of the many questions I am grappling with. There's more, but I don't want to write a "book" here.
Finally, thank you so much for all you and your team do for us. I am learning so much from you.
Take care, Ann.
Thank you for your input, Ann!
I see what you mean, yes. I guess I've been in the marketing space for so long now that I've lost touch with the "outside world" to some extent.
The good news is that I may be starting another venture totally outside of marketing. Because as you know, I don't have enough to do, already. :P
Shane! I never pegged you as cruel ... but to say something like that without even the teeniest hint as to what it is - is torture! :P
Will it be a philosophy course? I just love those of your podcasts with a more explorative, meandering bend ... #fishingforinfo
As Ann said, **please** include methods in “upcoming course exploration” for b2c & “solo-friendly” strategies...in both implementation & cost. I’m definitely not looking for “free” just something that isn’t designed/priced exclusively for teams and/or b2b...
I’m sure there are LOTS of us solo creators & teachers who really need this course! :-)
Ann, I am in the same boat as you. Small niche, which is great, but no influencers to help me grow bigger.
Shane, two things: 1) I would buy your course on audience building because of you are the teacher, 2) you can do it!
Again, awesome idea Shane. You're always in lock-step with where I'm aiming to go next. I have to sites and my wife has one too. We're working on building an audience that loves our content. I was late to get game and missed Course Craft (dang! When will it return?) but, would appreciate learning how to build a true fan base from nearly scratch.
Specifically, I'd like to know: what to say, how to say it, when/how often to say it to said audience. Do you recommend paid traffic first to build interest and hone messaging? How do I promote my course with a very small FB and YT audience?
Thanks!
Thanks for your comment, Zane!
I would prefer an approach that doesn't involve or at least doesn't lean too heavily on paid advertising. It can be a good tool, but it has its downsides, too.
Ah, yes, that makes sense Shane. Thanks!
We are heavily invested in using the WebinarJam suite for our webinars. Currently Thrive Leads doesn't integrate correctly with WebinarJam "LIVE" webinars because there is not a way to choose the 'session' that you want your visitors to sign up for. Hopefully this new 'subject' will assist in getting this issue resolved.
I'll see if we can assign some development resource to upgrading our webinar integrations, yes.
That would be great. I follow what you do with great anticipation. I know that you have the horsepower to put together an outstanding course on building a great audience. I'm looking forward to following your journey.
Yes to course!
Thanks for your support!
Hi, Shane. I think this is a great idea because it will answer the questions I have about how to do that very thing. I'm much less interested in building a large mailing list than in building an active, engaged tribe/audience. This update by itself has given me some insight into where to start.
I look forward to your next update.
Thanks for your comment, JT!
I love the idea for the course. I'm going to join the choir and say that live streams and webinars scare me witless. I think for beginners it's a very advanced strategy that frightens many. One tribe-building strategy I used is challenges and mini-courses. It gives me an opportunity to record minimalistic content in advance and then interact with my new subscribers for several days, making myself useful (I used FB groups for this). It worked really well for me. To make it easier for myself, I also joined forces with a friend who has done online courses and challenges before and she was there to cheer me on. Hope this helps someone.
That sounds like a really good strategy!
I really don't like webinars but recently received my Pivo (camera thingamajig) which allows multiple live streams, so may give that a go.
That looks like an interesting gadget!
Hi Shane
No doubt you've got enough affirmation already that any course from you would be welcome.
Your video does remind me of a question I had for you following one of your productivity webinars a couple of weeks ago. You mentioned that you think courses are a more viable business model than a subscription model for training based businesses. I'm curious to know tree rationale begins that as it seems to buck the trend.
I notice also that you've resisted the temptation to create a Facebook group yet still have managed to build an admirable community. No thought you have reasons for not going down the Facebook path.
Perhaps these could be subjects for another video or two ;-).
This raises an interesting follow-on question, & it’s crucial to the whole “community” concept of building an engaged audience...
[BTW, Brett... Shane hates participating on social media platforms in general, FB especially... I’ll let him explain why... ;-) Can’t say I disagree! I’ve been OFF social for 2 years now [“rabbit hole of distraction”), but do believe we need this addressed in the course... ]
This question actually came up many times in Course Craft, with “commenting” becoming so unwieldy with all the separate lessons! So much so that a student started a private (and secret, I think) FB group just for Course Craft students...
I hadn’t considered it until your comment, Brett, but I think this should be an integral aspect of any audience-building course: how to have a dedicated community platform, outside of commenting...and not on social media! A tall order, Shane!
Comments are great, especially Thrive comments, but when you’re in a course with multiple lessons — and the audience-building course is to be aimed at Online Course creators — this really needs to be one of the “levels” to explore strategically.
I can see how helpful these comments are, in a single post, but how complex the topic — and hence new course scope — is becoming!
So many levels to consider! :-o
That's a good summary of why I asked the question. Thanks Karen.
Thanks for asking, Brett! :-)
After all that obvious community & support need in Course Craft, I can’t believe it didn’t even occur to me... [rolling my eyes!]
Too focused on the “audience acquisition” part and forgetting all about the audience support part...and they are obviously both just as important!
Guess this a perfect example of why all these differing perspectives are so important in “getting it right!” :-)
Because of the quality and usefulness of the previous offerings I've purchased from you, I would be all in. Will be looking forward to the day I can pre-order your next business course.
Thank you, Jim!
Shane, I'd definitely get on the audience building course. You're one of the greatest teachers out there.
Have you ever heard of the Dunbar's number? He was an anthropologist whose premise was that we can have meaningful relationships with no more than 150 people at the time. It's impossible to stretch our attention and emotional 'labour' thinner than that. I noticed an uncanny thing happening with Facebook. No matter how many friends you have, Facebook always boils down your relationships to approx 150 people. In the context of building an audience, how would you comment that?
This is fascinating, Andrea! :D
My academic discipline is in Anthropology (my interest has always been archeology, but no under-grad degrees there in my area! ;-) LoL!)
Social theory is fascinating and your question is spot on for this “audience” discussion...
I’ve never heard of Dunbar’s number but it fits in with my limited experience
What I have observed — and read about in multiple places — is that there are more “lurkers” (bad-sounding name, but these audience members rarely participate, just take in information)... “Passive” audience members... Don’t contribute just hang out...
Perhaps they would still “buy” just not be vocal? This would be a very interesting discussion or research to get a handle on for this audience discussion...
And, if those experts suggesting “1,000 fans” have countered “Dunbar’s number” what is the formula for doing so?
Shane, love your take on this too! :-)
Thanks, Karen. I'm an 'indoctrinated anthropologist' - a joke I like to make about having a PhD, because academic knowledge, as great as it is most of the time, it actually also puts blinders on your perspective. :-) But I do love all social science, especially as it relates to the issues of building communities and a sense of belonging.
Interesting that you mention this. I was writing down some thoughts on how Dunbar's number relates to what I'm working on the other day.
With an online audience, my experience is that for every true fan that you actually regularly interact with, there are 5-10 "silent fans" you never hear from. They'll be passionate followers, read all your stuff, buy all your stuff etc, but they never comment or message.
So I think that if you have a close "true fans" audience of around 100 people that you regularly interact with, that translates to 1,000+ true fans with whom you have more of a surrogate relationship.
Having said that, there are definitely aspects of audience building and that online relationship that don't scale. Some of the personal touch goes lost, as your audience grows.
Synchronicity!
You are spot on about silent fans. I also like the metaphor of the concentric circles, which was mentioned in an earlier comment.
I very much look forward to the course, Shane.
Shane,
Thank you for confirming what I hoped was the case, yet also wondered about! <3
Q. to explore in your course: “Is there any way to improve that ‘personal touch’ reach/effectiveness as the fan base grows?”
Awesome! looking forward to it!
Thank you, Nancy!
This very exciting Shane, and I am personally interested. I will want to see a platform where one can log in to see a recorded webinar if one missed any.
Thank you, Shane.
Thanks for your comment, Lanu! I'll be reporting on the various recording and replay features the platforms have, too. :)
Shane, you are touching on a topic that I am wrestling with at the present moment. How to develop a relationship with people whom I can serve with a true benefit/value with a local focus.
It's an interesting challenge, isn't it? :)
I hope I'll be able to provide some useful guidance in this.
Audience building is a critical part of building many businesses today, however, like you say, it's not easy for many people to grow a highly engaged audience. I am definitely interested in seeing your progress and the system that you develop.
PS I love your geometric backdrop and look forward to hearing how you created your workable studio space!
Thanks for your comment!
I’m all in Shane. Been living out of the box since I can remember, and while I can hardly keep my head above water on the tech end, have had no troubles being a ‘creative’ when I set my mind to it. Would love to learn how to build an audience from scratch. All the respect to you for all you do and I’m sure I speak for a large segment of TT who really, really like you.
I've been so impressed with your other courses i would definatley buy!
This is like music to my ears!!!
Hi Shane, I like to work with Thrive Themes after it took me some time to get familiar with it. The videos helped a lot! Most of all it offers so many opportunities how we can finally build a funnel and here I see a potential. Because sooner or later we all need to build a funnel and in the beginning we build our websites ok, but to get the "right" funnel togther is an other thing. For sure you have a lot of know how here and it would be very helpful if you could offer something like "sample funnels" that work best.
Many thanks for all your help, you do a great job! Jolanda
Shane, you biscuit. You are a real pleasure to learn from. I look forward to your new work.
Thank you!
Count me in!
Glad is not called a Mailing List for I am having trouble building a mailing list.